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  1. The Wastrel is offline
    The Wastrel's Avatar

    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2003 3:57pm

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "phenomenaes"

    Maybe you should stop trying to parse my sentences. At best, you are unreliable.

    **The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  2. elipson is offline
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    Ad Hominem rocks.

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2003 5:22pm

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     Style: BJJ, mma

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think this arguement stopped being about EAMA a long time ago, now its justs a fight between two people who dont like each other, for reasons I dont think anyone else understands.
    Both of you should just get over it.

    "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind"
    -Ghandi
  3. The Wastrel is offline
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    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2003 6:10pm

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Alright, clear the air. This isn't our forum. I'm going to really try to explain this to you without sparking a new round of insults. Please read this post.

    1. I wasn't posting to you. I was posting to a couple of people who know me pretty well, who know my background and who understand where I'm coming from.
    2. I come from EAMAs. You could have read my profile.
    3. When you responded to my message, you didn't say ANYTHING about a blanket criticism. I would have answered ANY questions about that. I have put in a lot of leg work into defending EAMA from detractors. This is what you said...

    As for Asian Arts too caught up in religion, so were most European Warriors, Filipino superstition easily adapted to Catholic Zealotry brought by Spanish monks who were crusading against the Moros, who in turn were writing Arabic Spells on their armor and gear as they went into battle.

    So no religion has nothing to do with a Martial Art sucking or not, it probably enhances it.
    I didn't say religion made EAMAs suck. That's it. That's why I said "Try again."
    4. Your next post claimed that I was giving an analysis of what was wrong with their methodology. But I didn't. I never said there was anything "wrong" with EAMAs. That is clear.
    5.Things did not go wrong when I tried to tell you my background. Things went wrong when you said a "Westerner" can't analyze EAMAs. I accept your explanation at face value. I will not attempt to twist what you said into a meaning that you disavow.
    6. I actually attempted to answer your claim that I was ignorant by listing a few things that WEREN'T ALREADY IN MY PROFILE. Did you read my profile?
    7. I wasn't talking about methodology. I was talking about everything else. You can't explain a Hung Gar salute from a self-defense standpoint. It's a historical artifact. The ritual surrounding the practice of EAMAs is rooted in Confucianism and Daoism.
    8. I don't really care what you think about my background. Origami? Do you really think that there is so little to discover in studying East Asia? Is it really that useless? If it's so useless then why do we care about it at all?
    9. Of course I recognize that things can have multiple meanings. Why didn't you allow me to direct you to the correct meaning?
    10. I don't care what goes on the rest of this board. I don't wish to be judged by others' behavior. If as a new arrival you had tried to gauge the landscape a little, take a close look at other people, you would get a better idea of what the posters are really like. When I first came on here, I defended someone who I have since realized is a sociopathic ****. Ah, well.
    11. A few weeks ago I was posting questions about Escrima because I was thinking about taking it up. If you had read those threads instead maybe you would have had something else to offer.
    12. I never offered any conclusive analysis of EAMAs. I don't think admitting that they're complicated means that I'm clueless. Talk to Omar. He's right at the source right now.
    13. I don't think it's fair to say that a particular people can't understand something. That's a pretty unsavory train of thought.
    14. Just found out my brother was evac-ed from an undisclosed location in the Middle East to Germany for emergency surgery. I am no mood for vitriol.



    **The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

    Edited by - The Wastrel on February 07 2003 17:22:45
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  4. Freddy is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2003 8:18pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Be Happy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Qoute-" ( "WE both say its difficult to study and comprehend EAMA for all the reasons you stated, I take it a little bit further and say that "Its because its hard to use Western thinking into explaining the methology of EAMA," )
    I think that is somewhat true. I presume its because our method of thinking (depends on where one is raised) is contaminated by the culture we are brought up in. Perhaps we have a Western bias in our analyses of the Eastern culture, society and martial arts etc.

    PEACE!
    Ghost of Charles Dickens
  5. Sheol is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2003 8:20pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hmm. "Westerner" is a particularly ridiculous word to use, especially since it refers to someone who was born or lives in the West (ex. United States or Europe). Therefore, according to magikchiongson (if you take his posts as a whole), those who are Westerners or are Western-influenced, cannot or probably won't comprehend East Asian martial arts.

    "Problem here, is your trying to explain Asian Martial Arts through a Westerners eyes."
    ....
    "What I'm trying to say, is that its fricking difficult to analyse Asian Arts through a Westerners eyes."
    ....
    "I consider myself a very Westernized person eventhough I'm Asian, and yes I have a supped up Honda, and for the life of me I can only offer very minute explanations to some of these Eastern Martial Arts phenomenaes."

    Unfortunately, he's not good with words.

    "When I say Western I mean, Science, rational thought, medicine."

    Umm... Western civilizations don't have a monopoly on science, rational thought, or medicine. Matter of fact, these things were seen in Fertile Crescent civilizations and spread from there to Europe and Asia. Whether or not a martial art reflects those things has no bear on how "Western" something is.

    Perhaps I'm throwing fuel on the fire, but it's a bit ridiculous to hold that religous and cultural nuances somehow prevent understanding of how a martial art is or is not related to fundamental aspects of human combat. I'm just guessing that we're all homo sapiens, mind you. I don't even know if anyone wants to get to the fundamental discussion of martial arts.
  6. Freddy is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2003 7:58pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Be Happy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sheol perhaps "western" wasnt a good word to use. I dont know why it would be "ridiculous"? Perhaps inappropriate.


    I wished the martial art discussion would have taken a more positive and constructive turn. I guess those two still have to work things out.

    PEACE!
    Ghost of Charles Dickens
  7. The Wastrel is offline
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    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2003 8:11pm

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Freddy,
    I'm on the board because he appears to have left. Read this sentence again:


    WE both say its difficult to study and comprehend EAMA for all the reasons you stated, I take it a little bit further and say that "Its because its hard to use Western thinking into explaining the methology of EAMA,"
    What gets lost here is that even if you add that, we're talking about the same thing. Learning about an area's history, philosophy, religion (superstition), whatever, would go a long way to allowing you to understand "the way they think." Part of the problem of thinking that way is that it assumes that ways of thinking are common within cultures. Take a second look at this board and tell me if you agree with that.

    **The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  8. gong sau is offline

    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2003 8:30pm

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     Style: Brazillian Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What's ironic about this whole thread is that this was the exchange immediately preceding the flame bath:

    Sheol
    Middleweight
    380 Posts
    212 Gold
    385 Rep. Points Posted - February 05 2003 : 14:02:53
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The Wastrel:

    It's hard to remain civil when it seems like you're speaking another language, doesn't it? :D


    The Wastrel
    Heavyweight
    USA
    1084 Posts
    208 Gold
    1089 Rep. Points Posted - February 05 2003 : 14:13:08
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Yes, and I really need to keep a handle on it.
    - snip -

    **The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

    Edited by - The Wastrel on February 05 2003 14:15:54
    <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>



    Edited by - gong sau on February 09 2003 19:31:49
    -----------------------------------------------------
    "The difference between us, and other martial arts websites you might be looking for, is that we're not going to feed you, well, bullshit about martial arts."
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  9. The Wastrel is offline
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    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2003 9:31pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    And that's fair GongSau, but this kind of thing I will not brook:

    "Problem here, is your trying to explain Asian Martial Arts through a Westerners eyes. Good fricking luck."

    All this amounts to is an attempt to silence the speaker, no matter what he is saying, no matter what you have to say to that. I despise this above all other things. I will not tell someone that they should merely shut up because of who they are. He claims that he was misread.

    **The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  10. Sheol is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2003 9:41pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    gong sau:

    It goes to show just how hard it is to be both serious AND polite, sometimes. I'm a fairly nice guy (really, I am), but I tend to be intense, so I know what happens when a conflict occurs. :/ It's a shame since a lot of folks are here for the same reasons... to discuss problems facing the martial arts and to laugh at Peedee's articles. (The one on Arvantis in particular.) Okay, well not everyone finds Peedee amusing or this board's inclination to be critical, all that welcome, but we can't just hold hands and sing the same sickening note that so many other sites espouse. We just have to accept that conflicts will occur and move on.
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