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  1. Judah Maccabee is offline
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    Bullshido Wikipedia Delegate

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    Posted On:
    11/29/2004 1:19am

    supporting memberhall of fameBullshido Newbie
     Style: Krav / (Kick)Boxing / BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Criticizing a System / Art

    I understand that there are a number of individuals here who are ex-TKD or who left a system/art that was insufficient for self-defense needs. They came up short in one regard or another. This also carries over to observing a system being ineffective in competition (such as that SCARS precursor I was reading about on here sometime recently).

    On the other hand, I also see criticism of a style/system/art based on theoretical concepts rather than direct experience. The problem I see with this is that accounts and experiences can be from non-expert perspectives that don't accurately account for the art/system as a whole, but rather the subjective nature of the place where the art was studied. For example, the Krav I learned and studied at a school temporarily in Seattle was taught by a young, very casual instructor who didn't care much about physical fitness. On the other hand, the Krav I learn now is from an instructor who berates us to "squeeze their neck harder so they know what a damn choke FEELS like! You're not doing them favors by being nice!"

    If you've criticized an art/system, or you feel you would be able to, on what basis would you classify an art/system as "ineffective" or "useless?" How much do you feel that personally studying the art plays a role in being able to effectively and substantially criticize it?
  2. Zeddy is offline

    The Eternal n00b

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    Posted On:
    11/29/2004 7:10am

    Join us... or die
     Style: CM Boxing/BJJ/RBSD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Steve, correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're boiling it back down to the individual vs style debate again.

    Edit:

    Whoops, my bad. Must read more carefully. Osiris is t3h corr3ct.
  3. Judah Maccabee is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/01/2004 10:23am

    supporting memberhall of fameBullshido Newbie
     Style: Krav / (Kick)Boxing / BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeddy
    Steve, correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're boiling it back down to the individual vs style debate again.

    Edit:

    Whoops, my bad. Must read more carefully. Osiris is t3h corr3ct.
    Osiris has a good point, as he usually does. But it's not necessarily about that.

    What I'm talking about is criticizing a style/art/system without having a solid basis on doing so; not having any experience in it, for example, or not having enough proficiency in a similar or applicable method that could critique the style/art/system in question.

    For example, I've seen some bashing of Krav Maga on this site, or I've been given crap because I study it and recommend it to others. I get the impression that it is viewed as a "not good" art, but except for an analysis of gun disarming techniques by Kungfoolss, I've never seen any substantiation why. I don't have a problem with criticism of systems and such. It's one thing to criticize, it's another to mouth off ignorantly and bash something without adequate knowledge.

    So that's what I'm getting at. At what point would one consider themselves capable enough to judge another style, especially if they've never practiced it?
  4. lama_xy is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/01/2004 10:46am


     Style: non-aliveness BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Steve,

    What's the difference between Krav Maga and JKD? :P

    My main curiousity about KM and JKD is whether they are actual "styles"? Or a collection of "techniques"?

    Thanks.
  5. Sungam is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/01/2004 11:00am


     Style: Aikido, bad breath

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Interesting question.

    Trouble is it's much more fun to mouth off generalisations that you've heard than it is to actually go and try something new or do some basic research. Plus by wittily putting down another style it also makes whatever art you study to be so much kick-assier.

    But I digress. To answer the question: -

    "So that's what I'm getting at. At what point would one consider themselves capable enough to judge another style, especially if they've never practiced it?"

    I would consider myself capable of judging another style if I fought with some (ok lets be pedantic and say 3) practitioners of said art who were all my size and had about the same number of hours training. I reckon then I could probably start to comment on that style with personal examples.
  6. fernando is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/01/2004 12:30pm


     Style: stand up,clinch,ground

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    there are no bad styles only bad training methods
  7. Raven is offline
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    <Insert something clever here>

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    Posted On:
    12/01/2004 12:45pm

    supporting member
     Style: Currently a BJJ noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by fernando
    there are no bad styles only bad training methods

    I disagree, as a complete art is usually better than an incomplete art.
    :qleft1: :new_cussi :qmickey: :evil7: :XXcat: :XXfish: :5crackup:
  8. fernando is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/01/2004 12:47pm


     Style: stand up,clinch,ground

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    so what is a complete art then?
  9. Raven is offline
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    <Insert something clever here>

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    Posted On:
    12/01/2004 12:50pm

    supporting member
     Style: Currently a BJJ noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A complete art has Striking, Grappling, and ground fighting, jointlocks and throwing. Basically, your well prepared for a variety of situations.
    :qleft1: :new_cussi :qmickey: :evil7: :XXcat: :XXfish: :5crackup:
  10. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/01/2004 12:51pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Many systems were created to be effictive aginst practioners of either the same system or a specific system ( case of Wing Chun that was, according to some, created to defeat the "long arm" systems of the time).

    Few systems were created for "complete combat".

    That is why cross training was and is, so vital for a Martial Artist.
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