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  1. Grant is offline

    Middleweight

    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Southampton, England
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    1,172

    Posted On:
    11/27/2004 7:47pm

    supporting member
     Style: MT, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Avoiding/Escaping The Guillotine

    What The Hell! :eusa_wall
    I seem to be tapping alot to this move lately, it goes like this:
    In opponent's closed guard --> guillotine --> cranking and cranking --> tapping like girl

    I normally have around seven seconds to escape before I give in and tap. The only way I can really think of escaping is to pass their guard which I fail at doing in seven seconds with them in control of my upper body.

    I can pull down on their wrist which does nothing but give me slightly more time before the tap. Of course the best way to stop a submission is to stop it before it is locked in but I just can't seem to avoid it.

    Any tips on avoiding or escaping from this hold?
  2. Jekyll is offline
    Jekyll's Avatar

    .

    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    On the wrong side of the pond for gong sau
    Posts
    2,084

    Posted On:
    11/27/2004 7:51pm

    supporting member
     Style: San shou(tai chi) +judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dont lean forward.
    Try to stand up in the guard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickx
    It must suck for legit practitioners of tai chi like Cullion to see their art get all watered down into exercise for seniors.
    Those who esteme qi have no strength. ~ Exposition of Insights into the Thirteen Postures Attrib: Wu Yuxiang founder of Wu style tai chi.
  3. Roidie McDouchebag is offline
    Roidie McDouchebag's Avatar

    Injury Waiting To Happen

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    May 2002
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    Kamloops, BC
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    9,419

    Posted On:
    11/27/2004 7:53pm

    supporting member
     Style: Snatch Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If someone tries that, they have to put their arm around your neck, just as they do that if you reach your opposite arm around the back of their neck, you can put'em in an arm triangle. Considering that you're in their guard, they'll probably just push you away, but you've avoided the guillotine.
  4. Grant is offline

    Middleweight

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    May 2004
    Location
    Southampton, England
    Posts
    1,172

    Posted On:
    11/27/2004 7:54pm

    supporting member
     Style: MT, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dont lean forward.
    Try to stand up in the guard.
    So is it that you are pretty much screwed if they guy who has you in his guard gets an underhook in and pulls you down onto him, because it seems that it is really easy to switch to a guillotine and then crank.
  5. Roidie McDouchebag is offline
    Roidie McDouchebag's Avatar

    Injury Waiting To Happen

    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Kamloops, BC
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    9,419

    Posted On:
    11/27/2004 7:58pm

    supporting member
     Style: Snatch Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If he has an underhook it's easier to do what I said there.
  6. Grant is offline

    Middleweight

    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Southampton, England
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    1,172

    Posted On:
    11/27/2004 8:02pm

    supporting member
     Style: MT, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I hadn't thought of that. If I fail to apply the arm triangle and he gets the guillotine on, is there anything you can do in the way of escapes? :icon_scra
    Last edited by Grant; 11/27/2004 8:28pm at .
  7. Stick is offline
    Stick's Avatar

    Mostly, I just sit here. Mostly.

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Washington DC. USA
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    7,952

    Posted On:
    11/27/2004 8:32pm

    hall of famestaff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, if your arm's already up there from trying to choke him, you can just stiff arm him, push his head away off of is chin or neck, or that little spot under the nose, but then you're just asking for an arm lock of some kind.

    Don't just pull down on the arm, work your arms and hand in between his forearm and your neck, should help you to keep some pressure off by controlling where that pressure goes. I suppose you can stack, he'll either close up and really try to snap your neck, in which case you've got to really lay into him, or he'll open up his guard a little which can ease your escape. I prefer to sit backand work tight and close; the part of the guilotine that bugs me the most is when someone closes guard or grapevines and stretches out my back and neck, for me it's more important to make sure that doesn't happen thn it is to break the choke.

    Work on opening guard and passing, that's really teh best way to defeat a guilotine, get out of guard.
    Last edited by Stick; 11/28/2004 12:11pm at . Reason: er.... I accidently said triangle instead of guilotine...
  8. IzzyDaHedgehog is offline

    Didn't so much Fall as Saunter Vaguely Downwards

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
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    Ooooooklahoma!!!
    Posts
    1,591

    Posted On:
    11/27/2004 9:22pm


     Style: Ex-TKD, BJJ, Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    what I do is: put your forearm (the one closest to their head) across their throat, then drive your weight forward onto them. This takes leverage away from their choke, and it also distracts them by choking them a little bit. After that, it's just pulling down on the wrist of the choking arm with your free hand to loosen the hold and then pull your head out.
    sudo make me a sandwich!
  9. chaosexmachina is offline
    chaosexmachina's Avatar

    Unexpected Elbow

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    4,450

    Posted On:
    11/27/2004 11:36pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: MMA/Pankration

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, the best way to avoid this is to keep good posture in the guard. That's one of the first things I learned, because I seemed to tap to that one the most.
    "The depressing thing about tennis is that no matter how good I get, I'll never be as good as a wall." - Mitch Hedberg

    El Guapo says dance!
  10. bushi51 is offline
    bushi51's Avatar

    Host-Personal Defense TV

    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    949

    Posted On:
    11/28/2004 4:32am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    1) Keep your head up
    2) If he gets the Guillotine, depending on which side your head is on, that hand pulls down on his wrist
    3) Other arm drapes over his shoulder keeping him from arching his back.
    4) Work your head out of the choke.
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