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  1. DANINJA is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/25/2004 5:40pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Sport WT

    EBMAS in Italy are planning WT tournaments-what do you guys think?:

    Dear Ebmas & all families of WT friends,
    I’m very happy to announce ufficially that finally there will exist in Ebmas in a short time the possibility to compete using WT techniques in dedicated sport contest.
    I’ve dedicated many months on behalf of Sifu Emin to the problem of creating an efficient system of regulations.
    We think that thanks to “SPORTWT” is possible to create better WT martial artist and promote the diffusion of our loved art.
    I know that many people (which have big economic interest in the preservation of the actual situation of WT, where students spend a life for learn the system paying a lot for learn “secret advanced” technicques) will criticize this approach with every weapon.

    To persons in good faith, who simply are told from year and years “WT is too much dangerous for sport competitions”, I’m at your disposal to answer to all your questions and doubts or critics.
    Pleas just USE A VERY ELEMENTAR AND EASY ENGLISH (or Italian) LANGUAGE and be patient some time because I don’t’have much time for go internet.

    Now I’d like only to tell a very important concept:We don’t’ want to change the classic WT (or better, as we call, the scientific WT): in the sport contest only “pure” technicques are valid (no jumping, no side guards, no body weight or shoulder forward…).
    In a very limitated way (only 5x round) are admitted MMA (=mixed martial arts: karate, thay, judo, brazialian jiu jitsu…) attacks (not also defenses! We want use the WT original defensive strategies and techniques ) because we want prepare WT students to deal also with other style attacks: it’ important both for self defense (nobody in the streets will attack you with chatsao-punch or double punches, but they can give you a roundhouse kick or attempt a takedown) and for a future MMA participation of our fighters.

    I know that the first matches will be caotical, confused, ruffled, not beautiful to watch and not good technically. This is only because in WT only few practise free sparring. There will be fights that end with a KO only for one kick in abdomen or for a knee in quadriceps, because many have never really took a hit. Ther will be athletes that finish without breath after only 20 seconds of chain punches. But after some time our level will grow enormously and we’ll become all much better than now.
    A big hug, Antonio

    HAVE A LOOK OF RULES ON WWW.WTMMA.COM
    AND…GOOD TRAINING!
  2. DANINJA is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/25/2004 5:42pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    rules of sport WT(english version):

    http://www.wtmma.com/ENGLISH%20internet.htm
  3. supercrap is offline
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    Founder/GrandSensei of Joint British / Papua New Guinean Non-contact Lawn Bowls Jiu Jitsu Committee

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    Posted On:
    11/25/2004 6:03pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    AWESOME!

    Just what WT / VT / WC needs.

    I hope it catches on, I really do. I may even start training WC again!
    Imports from Japan, Shipping Worldwide! Art Junkie, Scramble, BJJ Spirits, Reversal...
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  4. Stold3 is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/25/2004 6:03pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "here was a time that we had a great reputation as fighters in the martial arts world; actually that’s not more true, because we have spoken too much."

    "Athletes gain points scoring WT technique; instead athletes loose points when are not able to defend an opponent’s MMA attack):"

    what qualifies as an mma attack?
  5. Pojac is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/25/2004 10:29pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's surely a good idea for any art that doesn't have competition to add some. But the rules and concepts proposed are bizarre. You can take a sport like boxing and say, okay, you can only use boxing techniques, because the criteria for a legal boxing technique are simple and consistent: hit above the belt, using only your gloved fists. But to say you can only use wing tsun techniques, except for mma techniques, which can only be used on offense, but only five times, except for groundwork, which can continue? You can only use wing tsun guards? You can't use boxing "blocks," but you can use boxing punches? You're allowed to hit full contact to the body but only 30% to the head? That makes some sense for sparring, but how do you judge in a competition full contact fight what percentage they're hitting at?

    These rules are an absolute mess. I can't imagine being able to keep it all straight while someone's trying to hit me in the head. I also can't imagine being able to referee this effectively. Do I give some kind of a penalty if I see someone shift their weight in a way that isn't wing tsun?
    Last edited by Pojac; 11/25/2004 10:33pm at .
  6. supercrap is offline
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    Founder/GrandSensei of Joint British / Papua New Guinean Non-contact Lawn Bowls Jiu Jitsu Committee

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    Posted On:
    11/25/2004 10:32pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have a feeling there will be an 'irnoning out' process.
    Imports from Japan, Shipping Worldwide! Art Junkie, Scramble, BJJ Spirits, Reversal...
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  7. Pojac is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/25/2004 10:45pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hopefully. Still, I can't help but think that the logic behind all the rules is a bit flawed. Wing Tsunners are being encouraged to try a bastard sort of mma where they are supposed to use only textbook perfect, lineage approved wing tsun techniques instead of trying to get anything new out of competing. Why do this? If wing tsun turns out to actually work perfectly as is in an mma format, then students who train primarily in wing tsun won't need any artifical constraints to keep them using it. If, maybe, just maybe, some of it doesn't work so perfectly against modern mma practioners, or even against just each other in an mma format, why force them to use what isn't working....

    ****. This is where someone chimes in that what works in mma doesn't always work in da street, and what doesn't work in mma can work in da street, and wing tsun is for da street, so they can't be corrupted by hooks and boxing defense. Right? Forget I said anything.
  8. manchuria is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/25/2004 10:51pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The techniques of sporting WT must be EXACTLY THE SAME of classic WT!!
    I hope they allow for stylistic variation
    CLICK THE ADDS ROMO!

    This chapter will also show clips from a high-speed video in which Master Bristol conceals a Swiss Army Knife inside his buttocks. -from "The Magicians Code" by Hans Bristol
  9. manchuria is offline

    lord of the glen

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    Posted On:
    11/25/2004 10:59pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Pojac, are you saying internal competition is counterproductive to a styles performance in MMA? do you think BJJ should eliminate its internal competition to focus solely on MMA then?
    CLICK THE ADDS ROMO!

    This chapter will also show clips from a high-speed video in which Master Bristol conceals a Swiss Army Knife inside his buttocks. -from "The Magicians Code" by Hans Bristol
  10. Pojac is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/25/2004 11:20pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Not at all. Boxing is fine as it is, if boxing is what you like, the same for wrestling, judo, bjj, kickboxing, whatever. Each of these varies in how free the sparring is, and what sorts of techniques are legal. But these internal competitions have rational restrictions, based on either the ranges the art/sport involves, and safety conerns.

    Boxing is a very limited sport (in what is permissible, not applicability), and kicks, takedowns, throws, submissions, elbows etc. are not allowed. But no attempt is made to say you must use "boxing punches," and not chain punching from wing chun or karate reverse punches. The sport is defined by its restrictions on range, target, and striking weapon: any technique that involves hitting above the waist with a glove is permissible, and everyone is free to win or lose on the merits of their training and techniques.

    BJJ is a lot less limited than boxing, in that you can work in clinch and ground, and can attack the entire body. It's defined by its own rule set like boxing: you can't strike, bite, eyegouge, fish hook, etc., but can apply submission holds to essentially the entire body. There's no attempt to say that while rolling you must use only bjj submissions, and can't use judo, sambo, or catch wrestling submissions. No one will call a foul if you use a standing switch (a wrestling reversal) in a bjj match. You're free to win or lose on the merits of your techniques. If you come up with something new that works and fits the format of submission grappling, not only should you be allowed to use it, you should be encouraged to use it, so the technique spreads and everyone gains.

    MMA is the least restrictive, with no limit on ranges or either striking or grappling, only safety limits such as eye gouging, nut shots. To have MMA competitions where in a sense you are more restrictred than either boxing or grappling, where you can only use specific wing tsun techniques, seems counterproductive. I think I explained why pretty reasonably in my previous post.
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