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  1. JKing is offline

    No longer a Kaju-Critic

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    Posted On:
    11/25/2004 2:51am

    supporting member
     Style: Kajukenbo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    6 months of Krav Maga: report!

    well, I took advantage of some free classes I had the option of taking. Krav Maga. I did it for six months, and here is my report.



    Work Out
    No problems here. The workout, even on slow days, is usually enough to make anyone sweat and start breathing. The only benifit of krav and the only reason I decided to take it at all.

    Self Defense
    This was the main thing that made me dislike krav maga. Alot of the Self Defense is just BS. I would never do any of it. It all relies on the fact that somehow your attacker will just not react when you fight back. Lets examine one of the basic techniques they teach in the first 3 month or so period. Choke from the front. Assailant grabs your throat. You pluck the hands, and knee. Ad-lib from there. Now despite the fact that if the guy is in any way bigger than you that knee is never going to reach or get very much power in the akward position you're in (btw, I would never do a knee strike from a neutral standing stance which is how they teach it). Also, they somehow beleive the attacker would not just grab you again. The pluck is great... but they base 4 or 5 techniques off the pluck - all assuming they wont attack back if you just do a groin strike or a knee.

    TECHNIQUES
    One thing about krav is the techniques they have in their repetoire is pretty top notch. boxing style punches, thai style kicks, add a bit of grappling for spice and you got your mix. The problem: Profeciency. Though these are great techniques, I never felt I gained enough profeciency in any of them. Why take krav and learn this stuff in a mediocre fashion when I could ACTUALLY TAKE boxing and/or muay thai and get better results?

    MIND SET
    this is another part I had a hard time taking in. Alot of the krav mindset is "we're the best there is." People are led to beleive they REALLY ARE THE NEWEST AND BEST STREET EFFECTIVE SYSTEM OUT THERE. The problem is that there are some really tough guys who join. The normal people who join the class see this big tough guys kicking so hard it knocks the pad holder back, and unmatched in strength while sparring so they beleive its due to krav. If you look at the AVERAGE person who joins the class, they just end up being mediocre. They continue to beleive though that krav will lead them to be as good as the 6'5 fire fighter in the class.

    MARKETING
    heres the thing I dont even have to tell most of you. Krav is as mass marketed as a big mac. You can go through the "levels" of krav just based on the amount of time you've been to classes. Heck, all you have to do to become an instructor is go to a one week work out camp.


    Overall, I wouldn't say krav maga is bad. No, in fact there are many people who could use it very effectivly. Heck, if you know some friends who want to lose weight I would suggest it too. In the end though, for the serious martial artist, I would not suggest the program. I would suggest boxing, or muay thai over krav. The excersize is mostly cardio - which to me is surprising. A modern science class and all I can do is shed a pound or two and run out of air while my traditional style not only does the same, but then works my entire bodies muscles. I would place krav over crazy CMA's, afterschool style karate classes, or taekwondo... but I would place it way below serious arts like Muay Thai, BJJ, kyokushin, and the like.
  2. Mayhem is offline

    Registered Member

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    Western Australia
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    301

    Posted On:
    11/25/2004 4:37am


     Style: Moo Thai & Crappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So are you quitting it or staying with it?

    I am going to have a look at a KM place this/next week.

    I am after something that will get my fitness back to what it was.

    Did you see any sparring in your 6 months there?
  3. LolodesBois is offline

    Welterweight

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    Belgium
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    689

    Posted On:
    11/25/2004 5:26am

    supporting member
     Style: Yoseikan Budo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah we ant to know about sparring..

    And where's the video ? ;-)
  4. Guerrero is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    11/25/2004 9:53am


     Style: Muay Thai & "t3h gr4ppl3"

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JKing

    Self Defense
    This was the main thing that made me dislike krav maga. Alot of the Self Defense is just BS. I would never do any of it. It all relies on the fact that somehow your attacker will just not react when you fight back. Lets examine one of the basic techniques they teach in the first 3 month or so period. Choke from the front. Assailant grabs your throat. You pluck the hands, and knee. Ad-lib from there. Now despite the fact that if the guy is in any way bigger than you that knee is never going to reach or get very much power in the akward position you're in (btw, I would never do a knee strike from a neutral standing stance which is how they teach it). Also, they somehow beleive the attacker would not just grab you again. The pluck is great... but they base 4 or 5 techniques off the pluck - all assuming they wont attack back if you just do a groin strike or a knee.
    I bought the original tapes awhile ago and I liked most of the empty hand defenses, I did think the weapons defenses were really stupid though. Especially the front kick to the face when an attacker is coming at you with a knife.
    Also, they somehow believe the attacker would not just grab you again.
    On the tapes they teach you to keep attacking if need be. The beginning of the defenses are the same or modified ( ex. chokes from different angles) in alot of the techniques but how you ended the techniques is dependant on what the attacker does. I actually liked this aspect of Krav Maga, it does simplify alot of the techniques and make them easier to learn, as opposed to learning a gazillion defenses to the same attack. I have to give KM props for having a kickboxing part to it, this gives the practitioner something to fall back on if things end up turning into a brawl, and it's good for conditioning. You can never underestimate the importance of conditioning, there are entirely too many fat ass worthless black belts out there (i.e. George Dillman).
    Why take Krav and learn this stuff in a mediocre fashion when I could ACTUALLY TAKE boxing and/or Muay Thai and get better results?
    True. But Krav is a good alternative if those things are not available.
  5. Kinzei is offline

    Registered Member

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    Houston Tx. area
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    Posted On:
    11/25/2004 10:08am


     Style: Daito Ryu, BJJ noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    JKing, I know what you mean about the we are better than you attitude. I had a 20 minute conversation with a KM insctructor once, and all he did was tell me how much better their style was then others. Seemed to have an almost cultlike mentality. Also, the few weapons defenses I have seen from their system seem more like to get you severly injured rather than defend against an attacker. I hope not all the KM schools are like this, as you well stated, their curriculum takes techniques from proven systems
  6. Ronin is offline

    Senior Member

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    Canada
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    Posted On:
    11/25/2004 10:31am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When Licthenstein (sp?) created Krav-maga, he took the "best and easiest" to learn techniques and combined them to make a system that was easy to learn and had a quick "application turnaround" for the average person/soldier.

    And that is what Krav-maga is, no more no less.

    A simple, easy method of fighting that can be used by the AVERAGE person on a AVERAGE person.
  7. WingChun Lawyer is offline
    WingChun Lawyer's Avatar

    Modesty forbids more.

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    Posted On:
    11/25/2004 10:46am

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ newbie.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ronin69
    A simple, easy method of fighting that can be used by the AVERAGE person on a AVERAGE person.
    I am pretty much sure the same is said of wing chun, with varying results depending on the teacher.
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats
  8. Ronin is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    11/25/2004 10:53am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Damn WC nutriders...
  9. WingChun Lawyer is offline
    WingChun Lawyer's Avatar

    Modesty forbids more.

    Join Date
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    5,426

    Posted On:
    11/25/2004 10:55am

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ newbie.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Damn israeli army nutriders...
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats
  10. Ronin is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
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    Posted On:
    11/25/2004 10:59am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hey !!!
    That was just mean !
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