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  1. baldwin_grant is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/24/2004 5:53am


     Style: Haidong Gumdo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    History of Haidong Gumdo

    Has anybody heard of a Martial Art called Haidong Gumdo?

    I'm trying to ferret out it's accurate history. The one they provide on the eng.HDGD.org website is fictional.

    So far I've been able to discover that HDGD owes much of it's history to a Korean martial art called Gi-Cheon (Ki-Chun depending on who says it), as well as to another Bhuddist Zen art called Shim Gum Do.

    Does anybody know anything about this? I'd be indebted to you.

    Sincerely,

    --Grant
  2. Miguksaram is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/24/2004 12:30pm

    supporting member
     Style: Shorei-ryu & Kumdo & TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by baldwin_grant
    Has anybody heard of a Martial Art called Haidong Gumdo?

    I'm trying to ferret out it's accurate history. The one they provide on the eng.HDGD.org website is fictional.

    So far I've been able to discover that HDGD owes much of it's history to a Korean martial art called Gi-Cheon (Ki-Chun depending on who says it), as well as to another Bhuddist Zen art called Shim Gum Do.

    Does anybody know anything about this? I'd be indebted to you.

    Sincerely,

    --Grant
    There are a couple of people who have actually studied the art who post on this board, they may be able to help you out better than I, but here is what I know. The Haidong Kumdo art does not have any recorded history until the 70's, though some of the instructors claim the sword techniques date back the Shilla kingdom. I believe they base their movements as if you are going again multiple attackers. The forms are continuous as opposed to some kenjitsu form which tend to have stopping points within the form. I would say that they don't have any Japanese roots based on the more circular motion of the forms. They have a bit more of a Chinese flavor to it.

    Some of the Koreans that I have talked to in the past say that the founder basicly put it together to make some money, and it really doesn't have any historical lineage. As I have not done extensive research, I can not verify either way. As for its link to Shim Kumdo, just keep in mind that buddhists didn't carry swords. Shim Kumdo is also a recent "ancient discovery" I really would not put a lot of faith in what they may dish out as lineage.
    Jeremy M. Talbott

    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    "Bullshido isn't just a place to hang out when you're browsing the net. We really are trying to accomplish something fucking extraordinary here that nobody's ever had the balls to do before."
    Quote Originally Posted by D.Murray
    "Which is better, to learn the truth, or to enjoy the illusion of being right when you are not?"
    Quote Originally Posted by hangooknamja88 View Post
    My definition of Ki is our energy. it's rather hard to explain it in words. It's not some mystical type of energy like white people...


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  3. baldwin_grant is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/26/2004 1:15am


     Style: Haidong Gumdo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Is there anybody else out there who practices Haidong Gumdo too? :new_uklia
  4. Jenfucius is offline

    Shogun of Long Island

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2004 5:44pm

    Join us... or die
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    another korean "bootleg" of a japanese martial art
  5. j416to is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2004 7:34pm

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     Style: Muay Thai, Kenjutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You might try pming Silver, he's trained in Gumdo, both here in Canada and in Korea. And his Master's webpage is:

    http://gumdo.ca/

    My background is Japanese Kenjutsu so I don't know much about the lineage wars of Gumdo, but I had a chance to spend some time with Silver's Master, Brian Gihm, and I was very impressed with his sword work. We compared different techniques and styles, and he showed me a video of a recent Korean test cutting competition, it was wicked! I didn't like the Gumdo forms very much, I've seen them before and I'm a little skeptical of their application, but their test cutting was really amazing. Much better than anything I've ever seen in Japanese kenjutsu. If you're just starting Gumdo you should be comfortable in knowing that you're really going to learn how to cut, that's a definite! But with regards to historical accuracy, who knows, who cares. I really don't place much value in lineage and/or historical accuracy anyways, but then that's just my personal opinion.

    Good luck with your training.
  6. Miguksaram is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/01/2004 9:58am

    supporting member
     Style: Shorei-ryu & Kumdo & TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jenfucius
    another korean "bootleg" of a japanese martial art
    If you ever see the forms of Haidong Kumdo you would say that it is more Chinese bootlegged than Japanese.
    Jeremy M. Talbott

    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    "Bullshido isn't just a place to hang out when you're browsing the net. We really are trying to accomplish something fucking extraordinary here that nobody's ever had the balls to do before."
    Quote Originally Posted by D.Murray
    "Which is better, to learn the truth, or to enjoy the illusion of being right when you are not?"
    Quote Originally Posted by hangooknamja88 View Post
    My definition of Ki is our energy. it's rather hard to explain it in words. It's not some mystical type of energy like white people...


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  7. rainfall is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/02/2004 3:42pm


     Style: mma

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    www.geomdo.org has a fantastic writup on the history of haidong gumdo in the documents section.

    There is no doubt that the style has both Chinese influence as well as Japanese. I understand that the techniques are based off of the techniques in the Muye Tobo Donji, which is, again as I understand it, a plagiarism of a Tang dynasty military manual called the New Book of Effective Discipline with extra material added in by the Koreans over time including techniques likely from Japanese swordsmen of the time. (the chinese name as well as the author's name of the New Book of Effective Discipline are both in that history writeup in www.geomdo.org)

    The names of the forms, etc are still all in chinese (using sino-korean vocab), which seems to me to bolster the Muye-Tobo-Donji-recreation history.

    For sure, haidong gumdo as a style/organization didn't exist before two or three decades ago.

    Likely due to availability, most schools use Japanese ken-jutsu equipment for practice (including the hakamas...), but as the organization grows, it is developing its own equipment that suits the style and its movements better than the Japanese equipment does.
  8. Jenfucius is offline

    Shogun of Long Island

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    Posted On:
    12/02/2004 8:24pm

    Join us... or die
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    it's like chinese restaurants that have a sushi bar to make a little extra money
  9. j416to is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/02/2004 8:35pm

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, Kenjutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    *laughing*....yeah....well....umm....*laughing*



    Chinese Restaurant sushi often sucks....they usually don't know how to make the sushi rice properly
  10. TimeToPartyHard is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/03/2004 12:08am


     Style: JuJitsu, KenJitsu, Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    At first glance of the history write up on www.geomdo.org i can pick out one huge problem. Kumdo means Kendo in korean. So what this guy is teaching is actually taken directly from Kendo. The history of Korea is pretty accurate, but the history of Kumdo is fudged to a spectacular degree if you consider it is taken directly from Kendo. The instructor may be teaching Gumdo, which is different, but if he makes such an easily caught mistake he's probably not dedicated enough to be teaching. Haidong Gumdo's history is pretty hard to figure out. Some Korean instructors will tell you that it goes back over 5000 years. Pretty interesting since there weren't swords then. But many Korean arts are like this, many people fudge a few details or dates to make it seem like they're the oldest art, when in reality its probably no older than Karate.
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