A Question of Bullshido!

**bushi51** · Posted On: 11/24/2004 4:09am

I discussed "The Gracie Way" book in a Barnes and Noble with a guy that trains at a Relson Gracie affliate here in Northern Virginia, and he said the book was BS because they do not mention Relson.

He went on and on about Relson being the Champ for the longest time and how a falling out with Rorion years prior caused him to be ostrocized (sp?). This guy went on how Relson's nickname for twenty years in Brazil was the Portugese word for champ (which I do not remember) and that he was even referred by this name to date down there.

At first I thought it was just sour grapes, but now I do not know.

**much love** · Posted On: 11/24/2004 10:05am

Originally Posted by bushi51

I discussed "The Gracie Way" book in a Barnes and Noble with a guy that trains at a Relson Gracie affliate here in Northern Virginia, and he said the book was BS because they do not mention Relson.

He went on and on about Relson being the Champ for the longest time and how a falling out with Rorion years prior caused him to be ostrocized (sp?). This guy went on how Relson's nickname for twenty years in Brazil was the Portugese word for champ (which I do not remember) and that he was even referred by this name to date down there.

At first I thought it was just sour grapes, but now I do not know.

I heard something similar.
The Austin affiliate told me that Relson (not Rickson) was the family champion.

A friend from Brazil tried to get to the truth of this. After doing some research, he told me the following.

a) Carlson said it is bullshit and that Relson ran from competition
b) Relson is not well known in Brazil
c) My friend asked another of his Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu brothers in Brazil, the reply was , "Don't you think you would know, if Relson was the Champion for 22 years?"

So in summary, it is the word of one Gracie vs. another.

Don't they keep records?

Wing Chun Lawyer where are you?

**Ashe** · Posted On: 11/24/2004 3:53pm

From talking to Rodrigo Vaghi, Megaton Dias, and other Rickson reps, I understand that Reylson was the "family champion" in Brazil for a number of years. This may or may not mean that he did a lot of regular competitive fights, but he WAS the "official" man to beat for someone to say that they "beat the Gracies".

When Zulu was tearing up competition left and right, Reylson was slotted to fight him as the family champion. Apparently an ambitious 18-year-old Rickson went to Reylson and begged at length for the honor of representing the family in that match. In winning that fight, Rickson also earned the designation of "family champion" which he still holds.

I don't know how long Rorion held the "family champion" title, or if he ever did. As eldest son, he's the de facto head of Helio's system. Due to a number of business issues and outright dickheadedness, a number of Rorion's brothers are somewhat estranged from him. This is why some brothers, like Rickson, have set up their own BJJ organizations. For example, in copyrighting the "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu" name, Rorion decided his brothers would also have to pay him for the use of that term, which is why they chose to call it BJJ instead of GJJ.

The author of "The Gracie Way", Kid Peligro, is closer by far to Royler Gracie than any of the other brothers. I don't know what access he had to the rest of the family or whether the versions of the story that he put down was the unvarnished version or a family rewrite. I haven't read the whole thing yet, and wouldn't know the difference if I did.

It's kinda silly to worry about who was champion when, because we're talking about stuff that happened 20+ years ago. People should spend as much or more time training as they do talking about stuff that no one outside the family knows the truth of. They'd get a lot more done and actually have something to show for it afterwards.

**much love** · Posted On: 11/27/2004 9:14pm

Man, my belly is full from another plate of delicious leftovers. I hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving!

Originally Posted by Ashe

It's kinda silly to worry about who was champion when, because we're talking about stuff that happened 20+ years ago. .

I found your post informative and entertaining. Is Reylson the Gracie BB in Vegas? My question was about Relson (in Hawaii).

Relson makes the claim that he was the national champ for 22 years. Multiple sources refute this claim. I want to know the truth. Is that so silly?

Respect.