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  1. Goldust is offline

    Registered Member

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    Aug 2003
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    Scottsdale,AZ
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    Posted On:
    11/21/2004 12:52pm


     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ďWhy does everyplace have to devolve into a McDojo?Ē

    Because thatís where the money is. Believe me I know from experience. I have my own place where I teach submission grappling/mma. People like the idea of learning how to fight but unfortunately the reality of working really hard, taking a few knocks now and then, and getting beat for a while until you get better doesnít always appeal to them. Itís far easier and more attractive to most people to go someplace where you donít have to work as hard, punch the air, get promoted regularly, and get to hear how deadly you are on a regular basis.

    I had a guy who was a friend of a friend tell me once that I should ďMake it easier.Ē I told him I have made it easier. When I was fighting I had the guys who were also fighting ďwarm upĒ with sets of 100 Hindu squats, sets of 50 Hindu pushups, and a variety of other calisthenics for at least 45 minutes before we even got to training technique, pad drills, and sparring. Obviously I donít do that now because I wouldnít have any students at all. The warm up now is only about 15 minutes long. I told him if these guys canít hang through this and the rest of the hour and a half class then they need to go somewhere else because this isnít what they are looking for. They can go to the Karate place or the RBSD place down the road and punch the air and get their ego stroked by hearing how deadly they are and maybe break a sweat now and then. I refuse to water it down to the point that it becomes worthless, I would rather close down first before I do that.

    Of course itís easier for me to say this because financially I donít have to rely on the school to pay the bills. If I break even and it doesnít cost me a **** load of money to stay open Iím fine with that. I donít do it for the money; I do it because itís something that I enjoy doing. I can easily see how someone who is trying to make a living off of it might get to the point that they feel that they have to sell out in order to survive. The sad reality is that most people donít really want to learn how to fight or to actually train hard. They say they do but they donít. Itís too hard and too much work, what they in actuality want is to make believe and play at fighting and McDojoís and the current RBSD trend provide that for them.
  2. j416to is offline

    Middleweight

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    Feb 2004
    Location
    Canada
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    1,242

    Posted On:
    11/21/2004 12:59pm

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, Kenjutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't begrudge anyone for wanting and needing to make money. I understand that people what to make more money. Obviously I do the same. And I support these places as much as I can. My gym membership is $900/year, the sword classes cost me $20/hr (about $900/year), my MT gym costs me $1000/year. And I buy all their gear, t-shirts, hoodies, shorts, etc, lots of stuff that I never use or wear, just to support them, at least twice a year, at all of these places.

    I understand that they need to branch out and make money to exist. But the choices that are made do chance things, they do change the training.

    For instance:

    1) The gym that I go to, to maintain/improve their upscale image, they've decide to remove the heavy bags.

    2) The presence of the kid's class mean that my sword class has to be done with shinai only, no swords, no live blades, in the presence of any kids.

    3) Whenever the corporate clients decide to show up to a "regular" class, we're suddenly practicing self-defense-like moves, no sparring, no full contact work, no strenuous physical conditioning.


    So to answer your question, do these things really change my training, the answer is yes.
  3. Deadpan Scientist is offline

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    Aug 2002
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    Posted On:
    11/21/2004 1:02pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Basically, your instructor needs to make kids classes, and normal adult classes. Same thing with the corporate clients.
  4. j416to is offline

    Middleweight

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    Posted On:
    11/21/2004 1:04pm

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, Kenjutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Te No Kage!
    It's America's way of softening up Canadian martial artists so we can go in for the kill when we're ready to invade.......
    *laughing*....it's all part of that Global Domination thingy. Damn, I should have known.
  5. Deadpan Scientist is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/21/2004 1:07pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You should tell your instructors about the mistake you think they are making.
  6. j416to is offline

    Middleweight

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    Posted On:
    11/21/2004 1:10pm

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, Kenjutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree with you, when it comes to separating classes. But the reality is that the success of these pseudo-classes, the kids classes, the corporate classes, is based largely on the illusion that they're serious classes with serious training going on in them. So nobody wants to separate them and point out the obvious. Nobody wants to spoil the illusion, and kill the golden goose.
  7. j416to is offline

    Middleweight

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    Posted On:
    11/21/2004 1:23pm

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, Kenjutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Okay, here is my point. I'm not complaining about the people that own the places that I train at. Each one of them is owned by someone I respect. I am sure that these decisions were made with great thougth. I'm am sure that these decisions were made because they were needed to be made. So I'm not going to complain.

    But I will look for some where else to train.

    And sadly, it seems to me, that catering to people who just want to train seriously, just doesn't pay the bills. That is what makes me sad.
  8. PeedeeShaolin is offline
    PeedeeShaolin's Avatar

    Co-Founder, Retired Admin

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    New York
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    Posted On:
    11/21/2004 1:32pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Karate,

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is absolute ****. I cant believe that on this website we have people backing a school that teaches classes where the kids run around in fucking NINJA SUITS and play with make believe swords before breaking CARDBOARD while waiting for a guy to walk in a ENTERTAIN THEM.

    Are you people SERIOUS?

    It took me 45 mins to drive over the Karate Dojo where my Kenjutsu class was being held today. But when I got there I just couldn't bear to walk in and head to class, because there was a Little Ninja's Birthday Party going on. The place was swarming with little kids, kids running around dressed up as ninjas, swinging mini kendo shinais and breaking fake cardboard bricks. When I walked in the door, one of the parents asked me if I was there to entertain the kids. I looked at my gear, turned around, and drove home.
    Did anyone here READ this and think its ok?

    This is EXACTLY the type of **** thats RUINING martial arts. This isnt martial arts, its playtime in a "karate suit" and its a joke. Theres nothing wrong with teaching kids....you just have to actually WORK and spend some damn time LEARNING how to teach without turning the goddamn class into ROMPER ROOM.

    If your too lazy to learn how to run a class correctly and teach worthwhile techniques and still find a way to make it FUN then you have no business teaching and I dont care how long you've been teaching or how many asses you can kick. There are guys in prison that can kickass too and there are martial arts teachers that have been teaching for decades and cant teach worth a ****.

    If you cant do your job without turning your achool into Pee Wee's Playhouse you should find a new line of work.

    2) The kickboxing instructor at my university's athletic facilities kindly suggested that I not bother joining his classes, because his classes are "meant to create an environment where people can develop their self-esteem, not their fighting skills."
    This is another line of **** that I cant believe anyone would support. What the **** does KICKBOXING have to do with SELF ESTEEM? You can GAIN self-esteem from becoming GOOD at kickboxing, just like you can gain self-esteem from learning how to knit really well, but the two have NOTHING to do with each other, period.

    ) The MT gym I've been training at for the past year has now decided to implement a new growth strategy. With two facilities, one in Toronto and the other in Thailand, and all the fighters to support, two of whom have won World Championship Belts in Thailand, the gym has now decided to branch out by offering Corporate Fitness Instruction, a kid's program, self-defense classes, fancy new color photo ID membership cards, and a clothing line, complete with an upscale MT fashion show at one of the local night clubs in the entertainment district.
    This is the only part that I can say I see nothing wrong with. This sounds like nothing more than a professional academy and that doesn't detract from teaching martiala rts in any way shape or form.

    Teaching little kids and having a fancy studio is NOT a McDojo regardless of what anyone says. I wrote a huge article on this WAAAAY back at www.mcdojo.com.

    The term McDojo is, undoubtedly, NEGATIVE and theres nothing anyone here can show me thats negative about teaching kids or having a fancy studio or charging high prices. A McDojo is born when people USE fancy marketing and sales in order to get people to buy classes that arent worth a dirty nickel from a NYC subway station.

    Promoting kids just to get them to sign up again or in order to "keep their interest"....THATS a MAJOR SIGN of a McDojo.

    The other key sign is using sleasy sales tactics to sell **** PROGRAMS that teach "little ninjas" and the rest of that UTTER **** thats KILLING the martial arts image and business in this country.

    The industry needs to be regulated so not any idiot who can beat someone up or any fat SLOB who wears a black belt can open a school and teach.
    "All warfare is based on deception." -Sun Tzu, ca. 400BC


    Reverse punch Kiaii!!!
  9. bushi51 is offline
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    Host-Personal Defense TV

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    Jun 2003
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    949

    Posted On:
    11/21/2004 1:33pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Do not think this pussification/feminization (sp?) is only happening to the MA. Its happening in other areas that were once known for being"hard(core)", like Law Enforcement, Military training and Youth athletics. The self-image crowd has taken over and are slowy tearing the TESTICLES off of everything.

    Its all Form over Function.
  10. PeedeeShaolin is offline
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    Co-Founder, Retired Admin

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    Posted On:
    11/21/2004 1:35pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Karate,

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you're capable and actually have something WORTHY of people spending money on you wouldnt need ninja suits to keep enrollment.

    This subject gets me so PISSED that I cant really articulate it. Theres this little vein on the side of my head that comes out when I start thinking about this. Right by my left temple. I must have mispelled 90% of the post above. I really cant even think about this stuff anymore because its going to bring me to an early grave via stroke, seriously.
    "All warfare is based on deception." -Sun Tzu, ca. 400BC


    Reverse punch Kiaii!!!
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