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  1. j416to is offline

    Middleweight

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    Feb 2004
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    Posted On:
    11/21/2004 7:13am

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, Kenjutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    CT....hey, dangerous is what I'm going to have to be, if I'm ever going to be able to keep up with you and KayDeePee!
  2. TaeBo_Master is offline
    TaeBo_Master's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    11/21/2004 7:23am

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Judo, Jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Honestly, I've not checked out Crossfit in too much detail. But here's the thing. Claiming one workout (or workout program) is the best for everyone is ALWAYS wrong. People are different, and optimal exercise has to be individualized.
    Click To Get My Free Training Newsletter... Do It NOW!


    "You all just got fucking owned.";
    "TaeBo_Master and GajusCaesar just scored 10,000,000 points on all you pawns."

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  3. Jekyll is offline
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    On the wrong side of the pond for gong sau
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    Posted On:
    11/21/2004 10:39am

    supporting member
     Style: San shou(tai chi) +judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well they dont, they talk about how each workout has to be customised to fit each individual and encourage people post their amendments/variations for comment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickx
    It must suck for legit practitioners of tai chi like Cullion to see their art get all watered down into exercise for seniors.
    Those who esteme qi have no strength. ~ Exposition of Insights into the Thirteen Postures Attrib: Wu Yuxiang founder of Wu style tai chi.
  4. Jekyll is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/21/2004 10:40am

    supporting member
     Style: San shou(tai chi) +judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    [/nutriding] Stuff in brackets is ignored for message length.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickx
    It must suck for legit practitioners of tai chi like Cullion to see their art get all watered down into exercise for seniors.
    Those who esteme qi have no strength. ~ Exposition of Insights into the Thirteen Postures Attrib: Wu Yuxiang founder of Wu style tai chi.
  5. Urban is offline

    Registered Member

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    Sherdog's Strength and power forum
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    Posted On:
    11/21/2004 2:18pm


     Style: Shen Ku master

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    why are you doing these? This is one of the reasons I have problems with the reccomendation of crossfit accross the board: for specific goals like fighting, I think these squat cleans are a HELL of a lot more trouble than they're worth. I mean, you need to learn an incredible amount of technique to do them properly without injury, and the fact that you're wrecking your wrists trying to do just that is plenty evidence to prove my point. If you don't have a qualified coach to teach you oly lifts and they're variants, the risk of injury (which is already plenty high) easily tripples. The stress they place on your shoulders (snatches in particular) and wrists makes them a poor choice for a fighter's routine, or even the average lifter's routine.
  6. j416to is offline

    Middleweight

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    Posted On:
    11/21/2004 7:03pm

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, Kenjutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Why was I doing them? Probably stupidity. I just wanted to see for myself, see what the big deal with Crossfit was all about. All your criticisms are spot on. These exercises do require some significant techniques to be learned, and there is an additional risk of injury. But is it worth it, are there some benefits that can only be achieved through these methods? That is what I was hoping to figure out.
  7. TaeBo_Master is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/21/2004 7:15pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Judo, Jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Honestly, I like cleans.
    Click To Get My Free Training Newsletter... Do It NOW!


    "You all just got fucking owned.";
    "TaeBo_Master and GajusCaesar just scored 10,000,000 points on all you pawns."

    - The Wastrel
  8. Urban is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/21/2004 9:42pm


     Style: Shen Ku master

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by j416to
    But is it worth it, are there some benefits that can only be achieved through these methods? That is what I was hoping to figure out.
    you'd be better off doing more specific exercises, and probably just lifting heavy. Conjugate periodization and speed work has it's place, but IMO, most people could benefit the most from simply increasing their peak strength on exercises specific to their sport.
  9. AFS is offline

    Judo Instructor

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    Jan 2004
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    Brisbane
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    Posted On:
    11/21/2004 10:18pm

    supporting member
     Style: judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The olympic moves have their place.
    The explosivity and power you gain, especially in you core muscles make them very useful for the MAs.
    A throw is an explosive move. If you just do squats with slow reps you won't get the same direct benefits as you would get from a clean.
    Punching is explosive and demands a lot of core muscles etc.


    The clean is easy enough to learn.
    There might be a point with the snatch, which is more demanding - and you need to put more time into learning the technique. So you could argue that the time spent on that might be better spend on other exercises.

    Re crossfit - They use a lot of olympic lifts. Again - get a coach to watch you.
    You would not learn Martial Arts techniques from the internet, why should you be able to do it with the OL?
  10. Urban is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/22/2004 1:51am


     Style: Shen Ku master

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Most people would benefit the most from simply lifting heavy and increasing peak strength. Especially beginner lifters. And IMO, when you analyse the risks and returns from oly lifting (yes it's safer with a coach around) you see that dynamic lifting with simpler lifts is a better solution. The one oly variant I like for triple extension explosiveness is the high pull or snatch pull. Other than that, overhead throws with a keg or sandbag, barbell or dumbell, or anything heavy, are an appropriate substitute for tripple extension explosiveness. However I would still reccomend against oly lifts, AND dynamic work, for as much as two years or more of serious strength training. Much can be gained without needlessly complicating things with explosive or dynamic lifting and the premature involvement of advanced methods. Lift heavy, go home happy.
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