MAS Baji clips.

***WhiteShark*** · Posted On: 11/22/2004 11:39am

Cool clips.

What's with the amount of "lunge" Uke is using in his techniques? Is that typical of Baji?

**Ippatsu182** · Posted On: 11/22/2004 12:49pm

Originally Posted by Omar

good morning.

You got the pinyin wrong on 格鬥八極拳. That's ge DOU Baji. 'Ge Dou' means 'fighting'!!! or Often translated 'grappling' or 'freestyle fighting'.

Off topic, but those first two characters look similar to these characters, which mean "fighting/martial arts" in Japanese.

格闘技 = fighting/modern martial arts

総合格闘技 = mixed martial arts

**feedback** · Posted On: 11/22/2004 2:28pm

I've just installed east asian fonts so I can read what the hell is going on.

你好吗 ^^

**Omar** · Posted On: 11/22/2004 5:40pm

Originally Posted by WhiteShark

Cool clips.

What's with the amount of "lunge" Uke is using in his techniques? Is that typical of Baji?

Not in my experience. I think it's jst typical of a casual demo like, "OK, give me a nice big lazy punch so I can do this in slo-mo and talk as I go." I don't even really recognize most of the techniques except for the wrist lock that he turns into an armbar.

Clip1 : We play it as a simple palm strike to the chest instead of that upward thing under the chin. I learned the variation he shows in the clip from Jason Tsou's group last time I was in LA though.

Clip 2 : new to me.

Clip 3 : doesn't even make sense to me. Mainly because of the way the Uke's combo seems to damn improbable. He's pretty muched crossed himself on the first punch so why throw the second without trying to first get your arm out?

Clip 4: I've used basically that technique sparring before vs. normal attempts to hit or grab me.

Clip 5 : The grappling part at the end of it is new to me. The entry is pretty standard though.

Clip 6: Any Aikidoka on board should recognize that one. My Baji is lighter on the joint locks. I was taught to add a stomp, dropping the weight down and palm striking the hand that grabs your wrist as you drop down....breaking it. Then the follow up is basically just to lunge forward esentially throwing the guy away.

Clip 7 : I think this may be my favorite. I like to use the type of blocking he was doing at about 00:52. It works fine for quicker punching combos. The follow up sweep was pretty nifty too. I don't think I've tried that before. Anyways, completely different app from what I know.

Clip 8 : I actually learned something from that one. Kind of a variation on the first clip. I wish I could make out the comments.

I also wish that even if he had to "feed" him slow, clear single attacks, that he could have at least kept the form consistent with the way people punch. You're right. He was reaching an awfull lot for a so called, close range style known for in-fighting and torso to torso contact.

**Omar** · Posted On: 11/22/2004 5:48pm

Originally Posted by Ippatsu182

Off topic, but those first two characters look similar to these characters, which mean "fighting/martial arts" in Japanese.

格闘技 = fighting/modern martial arts

総合格闘技 = mixed martial arts

There is a LOT of overlap between Chinese and Japanese characters, especially where MA is concerned. Most all Japanese MA terms in China...we just read the characters directly, applying the Chinese pronounciation. Same thing for names. More and more I am surprised by the number of phoenetic similarities that pop up here and there. Incidentally, I got an answer for my confusion about why 'ge dou' 格斗 means 'grappling' in my dictionary but 'fighting' in common usage. Like the anime, "Grappler Baki". The character Baki is not predominately a wrestler. He's an all around fighter. I picked this up on another board.

I've just recently finished reviewing Gene Le Belle's autobiography and in the 1950s he explains that his wrestling coach gave him a choice to study one of three different arts: Greco Roman Wrestling, Freestyle Wrestling or Grappling. His coach explained to him that Grappling was an all encompassing art, where he would learn not only learn various wrestling holds and throws, but also how to bite, gouge, kick, punch, head-butt etc. Years later and Gene, who went on to become a world Judo champion, a professional wrestler and stuntman, calls his system, which is the product of many years of cross-training in many , "Gene Le Belle's Grappling System."

**serious harm** · Posted On: 11/22/2004 6:00pm

It goes to show there are more applications in even a simple strange looking one legged posture, than most would think at least.

**verboten** · Posted On: 12/02/2004 8:41am

Originally Posted by Omar

By "Fuzi" dictionary, do you mean one with traditional characters? If that's what you meant, then no. I can mostly recognize the traditional forms. 'dou' is pretty different and that you had trouble with it tells me you don't read enough comic books or watch enough Anime with Chinese subtitles. 'ge dou' (fight!) tends to come up a lot, lol.

Really there's just 'Bajiquan'. There's no such thing as "imperial Baji" and "fighting Baji" etc...What ever they put in front of the words "Ba Ji Quan" is just advertising. It's not dishonest or anything. There's just no real different styles. Huo Dian Ge was the instructor to and personal bodyguard of Emperor Pu Yi. If you want to emphaise the street fighting aspects...why not call it" 'ge dou' Baji"?

There are some different lineages and some noticeably different trends but I am really opposed to differentiating different "styles" of Baji like has happened with Taijiquan and to a lesser degree with Baguazhang.

The beauty threading the needle. - That's a better translation. Or maybe "Fair lady threads the needle".

The second one is definately "tiger" not "man". And my teachers response was that it reffered more to a shenfa than a specific application. And I called it "stretches his waist" but really it is that kind of strech you do when you have a good yawn.

Bizzaro Root,

What was wrong with the techniques? I titled the thead "MAS" right at the beggining but in the context of a presentation of different tech's and their mechanics...so? It wasn't a class OR a typical demo. More of a question and answer AFAIK.

...Yeah, i could see it was "tiger", SPJ being taiwanese i don't think he made a mistake he was just dumbing down for foreigners in a wrong kind of way.
..
So i really have to correct my manga or animee lack. Any suggestion?
Electronic online free read?

I'm looking all over for any link to baji manga"kenji" or "Quan er". Can only find vague references.
I'd like to get the author's name in Japanese. I got a mantis book he wrote. I got some questions to track down.
...
Well according to Bald Monk there were two groups of baji specialists. Makes sense to me that there would be a group of bodyguard specialists vs traditionalists in Taiwan. Baji was definitely connected to the Imperium and military of Chiang Kai-chek as confirmed by my teacher a long time ago. I'm talking Taiwan here not the Mainalnd Emperors.
So if they emphasize goals differentely then they began some style differentiation would they not? And accounts for the technique emphasis on the baji fight clip.
Or it could just be advertising "tough image"as you suggest.
..

Yes "fuzi" means that. Maybe "ge" is a poyinzi?
..
I still haven't got my dicts yet. (like this chinese girl said to me "please pass me your dict".. because that was what was written on my electronic translator..."dict").
...

**verboten** · Posted On: 12/04/2004 11:00pm

Hi again!

About "Quan Er"/"Kenji".
Well, i found the authors name: Matsuda Ryuchi and also the name in Japanese/Chinese..at least the Japanese name in Chinese Characters.

松田隆智

I also got lots of links to his books on Martial Arts (in chinese) but no links to any manga for sale.

I think they are out of print. The only thing i linked to were guys listing their private collection.
He is founder of Japanese Wutang and could be anywhere right now.

There is a thread on Cyberkwoon, but HEY PEOPLE! is it just me or what.
Cyberkwoon has been down for a few days???!!

**Omar** · Posted On: 12/04/2004 11:28pm

Maybe with the author's name I can finnaly find the manga. Nobody I've talked to here so far has even heard of it.

lol@SPG4 dumbing it down...if that was the case.

There's most likely a lot of online manga but I'm the wrong person to ask. Surfing in Chinese stull gives me a headache. But I have gone and downloaded "The Water Margin" and "Journey to the West" and even found "Shooting Condor Heroe's" (she diao ying xiong zhuan) online so Manga shouldn't be a problem. What I mean't about not reading enough manga/watching anime is that the that character "dou" tends to show up a lot. The subtitles are so small I was thinking it was "men" (door) for a long time and figured it was something like "men pai" (style of gong fu or clan) before my GF finnaly pointed out it was the traditional character for "fight" (dou).

You learn a lot of cool terminology and MA related lingo by renting/buying MA TV series like the Jin Yong stuff or any number of the better 40 episode things you can pick up for about 10 bucks. (a buck fifty if you don't mind watching it on your computer instead of a regular DVD/VCD player.

As to the different verions of Baji....so far I've seen 3 distinct styles.

1. The Wu Lianzhi line. These are the hui guys. They keep it in the family pretty much. Pretty crisp, sharp moves but I haven't seen anything really fierce from them yet. They got a lot of pigua influence.

2. The Wutan guys. That's Liu Yun Qiao and company. VERY pigua'ish. A lot of big wrapping tangling throws and stuff. Ultra low stances.

3. The stuff I am doing. Higher stances. Less whipping around at the waist. Doing my level best to eliminate that whippy flexible stuff you see in tongbei and pigua. Ironically, the closest I have seen to what I do is the littel clips I have seen from Lu Baochun. I think it's ironic because my Baji comes down from Li Shuwen just like Liu Yunqiaos but Lu Baochun according to that post on cyberkwoon comes down from another line. Not Lishuwen at all. It looks very pure though, very much what I am shooting for....more so than the Wutan guys.