JJJ Question

**katana** · Posted On: 11/18/2004 11:20pm

From my experience, standing joint locks for controlling someone really only work on people who don't want to fight back, are much weaker than you, or are too drunk to do anything about it. For controlling a person really fighting to get away they are pretty low percentage unless done to perfection. Even ignoring the basic fact that getting solid control of a person's joint while both of you are standing and resisting is hard, the person has too much of their body left out of your control (i.e. all the other parts connected to the wrist that you don't have locked up). This means they can usually flail around and muscle their way out or hit you with their free hand while you're tied up trying to control them.

I dunno. If you have to learn them as part of your class you should. But be sure to have your partner really put up a good fight so you can see the limitations first hand.

**Antagony** · Posted On: 11/19/2004 1:46am

I agree with katana. I trained standing joint locks and was never able to apply them in ANY kind of sparring situation. But then again, I wasn't really a JOINT LOCK MASTER either. Take that as you will.

If you need a hint on interpreting what I said, here it is: I don't train standing joint locks anymore.

***TaeBo_Master*** · Posted On: 11/19/2004 2:45am

I'll face **** the hell out of you PizDoff.

**Gezere** · Posted On: 11/19/2004 5:19am

Get a room guys! :love8:

RM,

I agree with Ronin it sounds like you are doing COME ALONGS, Gene Lebell have some good ones.

From my experience, standing joint locks for controlling someone really only work on people who don't want to fight back, are much weaker than you, or are too drunk to do anything about it. For controlling a person really fighting to get away they are pretty low percentage unless done to perfection. Even ignoring the basic fact that getting solid control of a person's joint while both of you are standing and resisting is hard, the person has too much of their body left out of your control (i.e. all the other parts connected to the wrist that you don't have locked up). This means they can usually flail around and muscle their way out or hit you with their free hand while you're tied up trying to control them.

There are different "levels" so to speak for come alongs. The idea is to entice the person to move not force him. If that doesn't work you can escalate the technique (mainly simple adding pressure, or twisting a certain way)to make him move if he wants to or not. These are more 'policing' skills than done for a full on confrintation.

**Ronin** · Posted On: 11/19/2004 6:41am

Like the dark overlord said, they are more "policing" techniques than they are "fighting" techniques.
I have used them while bouncing, some work well, others are ****.
The best ones are the ones that put you OUT of range or opposite the free limb, perferably behind the opponent.
They are very hard to do on a person that is much heavier/stronger than you, and forget them if he is on drugs.

Like all techniques, they have their place.

**WingChun Lawyer** · Posted On: 11/19/2004 6:49am

Sorry, what do you guys mean by "policing" techniques? Applicable only on non resisting opponents?

**Ronin** · Posted On: 11/19/2004 7:00am

Techniques commonly used by police officers to restrain and transport people.

**LolodesBois** · Posted On: 11/19/2004 7:22am

I'm going to state the obvious here but, the hardest part in joint lock is training to use them effectively.

As every other technique you need to get to a level where you can use them in hard sparing, but for that both partners need to be at a good level, one to apply it and the other to 'know' when the lock is well executed and resisting more will break the joint.

I'm far from there yet but I've seen my teacher and higher student spar full contact and use them.

**Bang!** · Posted On: 11/19/2004 7:49am

Thanks, Asia. That quote pretty much sums up my own feelings on standing joint-locks. So far, the greatest value I've gotten out of training them is learning to adjust to different movements, etc. in the process of slapping them on. Holding, however, against a resisting opponent with any sort of skill, is largely beyond my ken. All this has caused me to be more curious about the type of people that do just that--going for immediate damage.

Ronin, what locks did you tend to use in your bouncing days?

I was actually thinking of the guy who came in and challenged your class that time when I was training the other night. I remembered that you had chosen something that worked as a "dislocator," but not as a submission move.