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  1. katana is offline

    Capitalist Pig

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    Posted On:
    11/19/2004 12:20am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, no-gi, boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    From my experience, standing joint locks for controlling someone really only work on people who don't want to fight back, are much weaker than you, or are too drunk to do anything about it. For controlling a person really fighting to get away they are pretty low percentage unless done to perfection. Even ignoring the basic fact that getting solid control of a person's joint while both of you are standing and resisting is hard, the person has too much of their body left out of your control (i.e. all the other parts connected to the wrist that you don't have locked up). This means they can usually flail around and muscle their way out or hit you with their free hand while you're tied up trying to control them.

    I dunno. If you have to learn them as part of your class you should. But be sure to have your partner really put up a good fight so you can see the limitations first hand.
    Last edited by katana; 11/19/2004 12:34am at .
  2. Antagony is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/19/2004 2:46am

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     Style: Filthy Jailhouse Tactics

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree with katana. I trained standing joint locks and was never able to apply them in ANY kind of sparring situation. But then again, I wasn't really a JOINT LOCK MASTER either. Take that as you will.

    If you need a hint on interpreting what I said, here it is: I don't train standing joint locks anymore.
    MY NAME IS ANTAGONY I SUCK AT COMBAT SPORTS KTHX

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  3. TaeBo_Master is offline
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    Certified Fitness Trainer

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    Posted On:
    11/19/2004 3:45am

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Judo, Jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'll face **** the hell out of you PizDoff.
    Click To Get My Free Training Newsletter... Do It NOW!


    "You all just got fucking owned.";
    "TaeBo_Master and GajusCaesar just scored 10,000,000 points on all you pawns."

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  4. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    11/19/2004 6:19am

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Get a room guys! :love8:

    RM,

    I agree with Ronin it sounds like you are doing COME ALONGS, Gene Lebell have some good ones.

    From my experience, standing joint locks for controlling someone really only work on people who don't want to fight back, are much weaker than you, or are too drunk to do anything about it. For controlling a person really fighting to get away they are pretty low percentage unless done to perfection. Even ignoring the basic fact that getting solid control of a person's joint while both of you are standing and resisting is hard, the person has too much of their body left out of your control (i.e. all the other parts connected to the wrist that you don't have locked up). This means they can usually flail around and muscle their way out or hit you with their free hand while you're tied up trying to control them.
    There are different "levels" so to speak for come alongs. The idea is to entice the person to move not force him. If that doesn't work you can escalate the technique (mainly simple adding pressure, or twisting a certain way)to make him move if he wants to or not. These are more 'policing' skills than done for a full on confrintation.
    ______
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    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
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  5. Ronin is offline

    Merry Christmas Bitch

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    Posted On:
    11/19/2004 7:41am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Canadian Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Like the dark overlord said, they are more "policing" techniques than they are "fighting" techniques.
    I have used them while bouncing, some work well, others are ****.
    The best ones are the ones that put you OUT of range or opposite the free limb, perferably behind the opponent.
    They are very hard to do on a person that is much heavier/stronger than you, and forget them if he is on drugs.

    Like all techniques, they have their place.
  6. WingChun Lawyer is offline
    WingChun Lawyer's Avatar

    Modesty forbids more.

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    Posted On:
    11/19/2004 7:49am

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ newbie.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sorry, what do you guys mean by "policing" techniques? Applicable only on non resisting opponents?
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats
  7. Ronin is offline

    Merry Christmas Bitch

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    Posted On:
    11/19/2004 8:00am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Canadian Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Techniques commonly used by police officers to restrain and transport people.
  8. LolodesBois is offline

    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    11/19/2004 8:22am

    supporting member
     Style: Yoseikan Budo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm going to state the obvious here but, the hardest part in joint lock is training to use them effectively.

    As every other technique you need to get to a level where you can use them in hard sparing, but for that both partners need to be at a good level, one to apply it and the other to 'know' when the lock is well executed and resisting more will break the joint.

    I'm far from there yet but I've seen my teacher and higher student spar full contact and use them.
  9. Bang! is offline
    Bang!'s Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    11/19/2004 8:49am

    supporting memberBullshido Newbie
     Style: Wu Style TCC + BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks, Asia. That quote pretty much sums up my own feelings on standing joint-locks. So far, the greatest value I've gotten out of training them is learning to adjust to different movements, etc. in the process of slapping them on. Holding, however, against a resisting opponent with any sort of skill, is largely beyond my ken. All this has caused me to be more curious about the type of people that do just that--going for immediate damage.

    Ronin, what locks did you tend to use in your bouncing days?

    I was actually thinking of the guy who came in and challenged your class that time when I was training the other night. I remembered that you had chosen something that worked as a "dislocator," but not as a submission move.
  10. Jekyll is offline
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    .

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    Posted On:
    11/19/2004 9:01am

    supporting member
     Style: San shou(tai chi) +judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ronin69
    Techniques commonly used by police officers to restrain and transport people.
    Ah, yes techniques you can rely on when you outnumber the other guy three to one and have battons and mace but unfortunately you're also on CCTV.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickx
    It must suck for legit practitioners of tai chi like Cullion to see their art get all watered down into exercise for seniors.
    Those who esteme qi have no strength. ~ Exposition of Insights into the Thirteen Postures Attrib: Wu Yuxiang founder of Wu style tai chi.
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