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  1. Beginner is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/18/2004 9:37am


     Style: none

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    MUAY THAI & MUSCLE MASS?

    Recently I joined a muay thai gym. Its occured to me that trying to retain/build muscle mass with the type of insane cardio needed for this sport is almost impossible. Am I right? Or can an even balance be attained without compromising my training time in the muay thai gym?
  2. PeedeeShaolin is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/18/2004 9:46am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Karate,

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It depends on your body type. Cardio and endurance training tends to against the muscle building process but alot fo people are able to have great cardio and still have a very solid strength training program to back them up.

    I wouldnt say its impossible for you, but you're going to have to put alot of training time in and unless you want to go pro theres really not that much benefit to training like a pro.
    "All warfare is based on deception." -Sun Tzu, ca. 400BC


    Reverse punch Kiaii!!!
  3. Jekyll is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/18/2004 10:26am

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     Style: San shou(tai chi) +judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Crossfit which has equally high cardio levels combined with weight training claims to cause muscle growth at a higher rate then body building.

    I dont know how true that is but a lot of people on this board (my self included) really rate them.

    Bottom line is if you eat enough proten, fats and carbs and keep stressing your muscles and giving them time to recover then they'll get stronger, maybe not at an optimum rate but they'll improve.

    Quote Originally Posted by crossfit
    Will I/can I get big?If you train the WODs hard, and eat right and get lots of sleep, you will definitely gain lean mass, lose fat, and yes, you can build muscle mass with the crossfit protocol. More specifically, according to Coach, Here is a hierarchy of training for mass from greater to lesser efficacy:
    1. Bodybuilding on steroids
    2. CrossFitting on streoids
    3. CrossFitting without steroids
    4. Bodybuilding without steroids
    The bodybuilding model is designed around, requires, steroids for significant hypertrophy.
    The neuroendocrine response of bodybuilding protocols is so blunted that without "exogenous hormonal therapy" little happens.
    The CrossFit protocol is designed to elicit a substantial neuroendocrine whollop and hence packs an anabolic punch that puts on impressive amounts of muscle though that is not our concern. Strength is.
    Natural bodybuilders (the natural ones that are not on steroids) never approach the mass that our ahtletes do. They don't come close.
    Those athletes who train for function end up with better form than those who value form over function. This is one of the beautiful ironies of training.
    www.crossfit.com

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickx
    It must suck for legit practitioners of tai chi like Cullion to see their art get all watered down into exercise for seniors.
    Those who esteme qi have no strength. ~ Exposition of Insights into the Thirteen Postures Attrib: Wu Yuxiang founder of Wu style tai chi.
  4. lurkness is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/18/2004 4:00pm


     Style: MT/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you are a true ectomorph like me then it will not be possible to make good gains in muscle mass from weight training while training MT. You simply cant weight train effectively and recover properly. However you can maintain.
    The MT definately keeps you lean.
  5. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/18/2004 4:15pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    While I am sure Tae-bo will be around to answer with more detail...

    No matter WHAT type of muscular or strength training you do, your muscles will grow and/or become stronger when you are resting, and anything that cuts into that rest /recovery time, compromises that strength / mass gain.
  6. alex is offline
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    STOP POSTING!

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    Posted On:
    11/18/2004 4:36pm

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     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    well look at k-1 fighters, in max they tend to be fairly lean but well built. in the heavyweights theres allsorts.
  7. Thaiboxerken is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/18/2004 6:38pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kru-MuayThai,GJJ-Blue

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Eat more food.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire.
  8. Poop Loops is offline
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    OOOOOOOOOOAAARRGGHH RLY?

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    Posted On:
    11/18/2004 6:47pm

    supporting member
     Style: In Transition

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Basically. If you go the standard 3-day MT classes, then there should be one day where you have off, followed by another day you have off. That's where you train for one day, rest the next. EAT LOADS!!!!!!

    PL
  9. TaeBo_Master is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/19/2004 12:12am

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Judo, Jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    OK. Let me make something abundantly clear. There is only one truth when it comes to weight gain and weight loss. The Law of Thermodynamics. How this applies to bodyweight is this:

    CALORIES IN > CALORIES OUT = WEIGHT GAIN
    CALORIES IN = CALORIES OUT = WEIGHT SAME
    CALORIES IN < CALORIES OUT = WEIGHT LOSS.

    There is no other truth but this. Yes, intense cardio DOES burn calories. But it doesn't come even close to burning so many that weight maintenance or weight gain is impossible. Even the most intense cardio would have a difficult time burning 1000 calories per hour. It's easy to eat 1000 calories.

    This also happens to be why it's a lot easier to lose weight with diet than purely exercise. A much greater calorie deficit can be achieved through cutting even a little bit of food out of each meal (spread out over 4-6 meals a day) than can be done through really intense exercise. Add on to that that people who exercise a lot think that it gives them the ability to eat whatever they want or as much as they want...
    Click To Get My Free Training Newsletter... Do It NOW!


    "You all just got fucking owned.";
    "TaeBo_Master and GajusCaesar just scored 10,000,000 points on all you pawns."

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  10. TaeBo_Master is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/19/2004 12:22am

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Judo, Jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    While I am sure Tae-bo will be around to answer with more detail...

    No matter WHAT type of muscular or strength training you do, your muscles will grow and/or become stronger when you are resting, and anything that cuts into that rest /recovery time, compromises that strength / mass gain.
    Yes this is true. However, cardio and weight lifting work in different energy pathways. And since it's highly unlikely you're imposing a significant load (for the purposes of muscle growth, significant means 50% intensity or higher) on your muscles during cardio exercise, you're not going to cut into your rest very much. Especially in MT, where you're not focusing on just one muscle. Weight lifting is muscle specific, whereas cardio is rather holistic.

    Let me illustrate what I mean by using myself as an example. IF I could have an ideal schedule that would allow me as much time in the day to exercise and train as much as I wanted, this is what I would do:
    M-W-F: Anaerobic days. Weight lifting and calisthenics.
    T-T-Sat: Aerobic days. High intensity cardio.
    Every day except Sunday: MA training.

    Now, since I don't have an ideal schedule, I have to break this up. The way my work schedule works out, I work 3 8-hour days per week, 2 5-hour days, and a 6-hour day. So on my 8 hour days, I do my physical training. Approx. 1 hour intense cardio, and approx. 1 hour strength training. On my 3 short days, I do MA training for about 4 hours a day.

    My point? Cardio won't (or rather, SHOULDNT) cut into your weight training rest too much, so don't worry about it. If you're undergoing even moderate load to your muscles during said cardio, however, (example would be a lot of calisthenics and stuff that is localized to specific muscles, especially to fatigue), then you're best off doing your best to pair that with your weight training, so that the rest can coincide.
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    "You all just got fucking owned.";
    "TaeBo_Master and GajusCaesar just scored 10,000,000 points on all you pawns."

    - The Wastrel
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