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  1. PizDoff is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/16/2004 5:02pm

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     Style: Grappling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Why are they all smiling like that?

    Click for funny picture!

    http://nsimg.us.publicus.com/apps/pb...tle=1&MaxW=580

    Staff photo by Kevin Jacobus
    Independent Karate School Shihan Jason Kittredge, center, demonstrates defense against multiple attackers during a demonstration as part of the school’s celebration of its 25th anniversary at Bishop Guertin High School in Nashua on Sunday. From left to right are black belts Jeff Maistrosky, Chris Marsh and Kevin Tipa.




    Well this is an interesting article, you can clearly see the ups and down of the school.



    NASHUA - Maria Milton broke an almost 10-year-old record among female students of the Independent Karate School on Sunday.

    She also broke seven concrete slabs with her well-aimed foot, and with a yell that resounded off the walls of the Bishop Guertin High School gymnasium.

    Milton was among about 75 students, of brown- and black-belt status and aged 12 and older, participating in the school’s 25th anniversary celebration, which involved an all-day exhibition.

    “It felt really good because I’d been frustrated with breaking seven for a long time,” said Milton, 16, of Merrimack.

    She had been working on the move, called the flamingo, which involves raising one foot in the air with heel poised to strike, since last year’s tournament, she said. Edit: Americans call it the flamingo? HAHAHAH!!

    “This (school) is an independent island in martial arts,” said headmaster Peter Desmarais, whose father Louis Desmarais founded the Nashua school in 1979 with his partner Victor Nastasia. Both are now retired engineers and highly active in the school as grand master teachers, each with the highest degree of black belt. The school has also expanded, opening a branch in Merrimack. Edit: Meaning this paid more money than their engineering job? OH WAIT! It's for the love of teaching!

    “We don’t believe in sending (our students) to all these outside tournaments,” said Peter Desmarais, Edit: Translation, our students suck so we don't want them going out and getting beaten silly point sparring. who seems to enjoy conveying the accomplishments of his students that fall outside the world of karate. The school has given out more than $54,000 in college scholarships over the years, he said. Edit: That is cool, very cool.

    “I want this to be a place where they can develop (karate) and use it,” he said. “I don’t like it when it becomes their whole life.”

    On Sunday, several of the school’s most accomplished alumni were judges, sitting back-to-back in a line of chairs in the center of the gym while two groups of contestants carried out all sorts of footwork and handwork, including breaking wooden boards, concrete slabs, and tracing fierce arcs and angles in the air meant for imaginary opponents. Edit: Land swimming...

    In one demonstration, students brandished various weapons, including long poles, a flashing dagger-like instrument, and colorful fans with metal parts. In another, students faced each other in pairs and followed directions issued by the judges, slipping out of headlocks, falling on the floor with loud thwacks, and mildly twisting their opponents’ arms.

    At times, it looked more like a pantomime of fighting. The school is nonviolent, avoiding actual hitting, according to Louis Desmarais, who calls the school’s form of the martial art, classical karate. Edit: How is that classical? People actually beat on each other back then.

    For all the throwing of bodies, swirling of weapons and aggressive grunts, there were plenty of polite “sirs” and “ma’ms” in the room; adults addressed each other with “mister” and “misses.”

    Pete Desmarais emphasizes the school’s commitment to fostering respect and teamwork among the students.

    “If you’re polite to people, it stops arguments,” he said.

    The patrolmen and detectives involved in the school help make it clear to the younger students that they are not to use what they learn to hurt anyone, Desmarais said. The school also has a close relationship with school guidance departments in the area.

    Sunish Oturkar, an 18-year-old student in electrical and computer engineering at Northeastern University, has been practicing karate for 12 years, attending the school sometimes four times a week when he lived in Nashua. He had traveled from Massachusetts to participate in the exhibition. As a black belt, he has also been able to teach at the school.

    “I don’t know what kind of person I’d be without this,” he said.

    Oturkar’s experience at the karate school helped him avoid the temptations of drugs and alcohol during high school, he said.

    “I was always asked, and it was always easy to politely decline,” he said.

    He also managed to avoid physical confrontations.

    “I’m very opinionated,” he said. “If people get to the point where they want to fight me, you just talk your way out of it,” he said. “There are so many ways to just not fight.”
    http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/...WS01/111150047

    A half-hearted search for the school's website turned out negative.
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  2. NextGuard is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/16/2004 7:49pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Looks like they have two sites
    http://www.enshudo.com/index.html

    http://www.independentkarateschool.com/

    >>


    About Enshudo

    The founder of Enshudo, O-Sensei Louis L. Desmarais has traveled the world and trained with some of the very best and true martial artists to bring his students this special art of self defense.

    There are over 150 techniques taken from 25 basic jyu-jitsu moves (called Nuggets). Enshudo has two "Katas", the Cane Kata and Kata Enshudo which incorporates many of the basic Jyu Jitsu moves making the Katas not only a thing of beauty but the essence of practicality.

    Students learn to use the least effort to obtain maximum results in practical real life situations. An Enshudo student becomes familiar with various martial art styles including Aikido, Kenpo Karate, Judo, and many others including O-Sensei's tutelage in boxing. Together, students not only appreciate the various styles, but are able to combine them to make what we believe is a truly unique experience.<<
    NextGuard = Paul from Atlanta

    Ten years experience can be ten true years or one year repeated ten times.
  3. jkittredge is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/09/2007 4:03pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Reply from School Member

    This seems like an interesting site, but the comments I read were a bit one-sided and came from a position of ignorance. I just wanted to clarify what our school is about, and some of the things that came out in the edits:

    "She had been working on the move, called the flamingo, which involves raising one foot in the air with heel poised to strike, since last year’s tournament, she said. Edit: Americans call it the flamingo? HAHAHAH!!"

    JK: I would say that this is a misinterpretation of the interview that the reporter had with Miss Milton. Among martial arts schools that teach kicking with a "chambered" position, it is fairly common to use the term "flamingo"... particularly when teaching children. Her break was actually a "forward heel stomp" using our school vernacular. We do describe the chambered position as a "flamingo" which is how the reporter got that term in the first place.


    "“This (school) is an independent island in martial arts,” said headmaster Peter Desmarais, whose father Louis Desmarais founded the Nashua school in 1979 with his partner Victor Nastasia. Both are now retired engineers and highly active in the school as grand master teachers, each with the highest degree of black belt. The school has also expanded, opening a branch in Merrimack. Edit: Meaning this paid more money than their engineering job? OH WAIT! It's for the love of teaching!"

    JK: I am more than a bit offended by this, and ask that whoever wrote the editor comments please reconsider how they reached this opinion. In fact, running a traditional karate school with the values that the Independent Karate School has is most definitely *not* more profitable than a full time engineering job. Mr. Desmarais senior had reached retirement age, and his partner Mr. Nastasia left his other job because the school needed his attention full time. The sarcasm about the love of teaching is vastly misplaced, and anyone who has visited our school will know how inappropriate the above comment is.

    "“We don’t believe in sending (our students) to all these outside tournaments,” said Peter Desmarais, Edit: Translation, our students suck so we don't want them going out and getting beaten silly point sparring. "

    JK: No. Our issue was primarily a safety concern because our students are primarily under age children. We've witnessed that open tournaments can have very loose definitions of "light contact" and "no contact". We don't want to bring any of our students into an environment that has the potential to be unsafe.

    Bluntly, we don't care that much if our students win or lose. But we do care if they might get hurt. Anyone with any experience in the open tournament arena knows that there are jackasses out there.

    "On Sunday, several of the school’s most accomplished alumni were judges, sitting back-to-back in a line of chairs in the center of the gym while two groups of contestants carried out all sorts of footwork and handwork, including breaking wooden boards, concrete slabs, and tracing fierce arcs and angles in the air meant for imaginary opponents. Edit: Land swimming..."

    JK: Not quite sure what this is supposed to mean. Is this a criticism of traditional kata? (e.g. Funakoshi's Heians) We teach traditional kata, but it's certainly not a training methodology invented by our school. We find it valuable.

    "At times, it looked more like a pantomime of fighting. The school is nonviolent, avoiding actual hitting, according to Louis Desmarais, who calls the school’s form of the martial art, classical karate. Edit: How is that classical? People actually beat on each other back then."

    JK: We're a traditional non-contact school. Historically martial arts schools have existed in both contact and non-contact formats. Classical in this description does not imply non-violence, but it is different from many martial arts schools that ignore classical training techniques.


    Thank you for your time.
  4. Neildo is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/09/2007 4:23pm

    Join us... or die
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  5. Wounded Ronin is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/10/2007 3:56am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, to be fair, jkittredge did do a point by point address. But, yeah. Still. It's 2+ years old.
    “nobody shoots anybody in the face unless you’re a hit man or a video gamer.” - Jack Thompson
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  6. Lv1Sierpinski is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/10/2007 6:50am


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Way to step up to the plate and address opinions others have of your school. Welcome jkittredge, hopefully you'll continue to contribute to the forums.

    But try to stick to recent threads...otherwise the wrath will be swift.

    Out of interest, setting aside tournaments, what level of sparring do you do in class?
  7. Scrapper is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/10/2007 7:37am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    jkitterege:

    Welcome to Bullshido. We say mean things here. We do it because confrontation implies ultimate resolution. If we say your school sucks, you are obligated to prove us wrong, or allow that opinion to stand unchallenged. It's how we work, don't take it personally.

    The classic issues we are going to have with your school as described in the article are as follows:

    No competition: Competition provides you with objective feedback to the quality of your training. If you win, you must be doing something right. if you lose, you are doing something wrong. No individual fighter, or training method is without flaw, and competition allows the most accurate demonstration of these flaws. This facilitates the subsequent elimination of said flaws.

    No contact: Not hitting = not fighting. Notfighting = not "martial" art. If you are not making contact, you do not know how you will react to contact. if you are not moving at full speed with real intent, then you do not know what full speed and intent will entail. Ergo, you are NOT prepared for actual fighting. This is where the "land swimming" comment comes in:

    Suppose you can't wim, and you hire a swimming teacher to help you learn. But all he does is have you practice various strokes while on land. You spend a year learning backstroke, freestyle, breast stroke, butterfly, and crawl. You drill the strokes over and over again until they are second natur,e and you an do them flawlessly. Then the instructor gives you a diploma and leaves.

    What is going to happen the fisrt time you jump in the water? Hence "land swimming."

    Those are absically the salient points that would cause us to question the trining methods of your school. If your school's goal is just to provide some exercise and entertainment for it's members, and doesn't relly focus on actual combat proficiency, then that is OK. Not everyone wants to train for the real thing. But if it is your contention that your school's training approach as described in the article constitutes a self-defense system, then I think many will take issue with that.

    But don't let that dissuade you. Stick around and discuss it. Keep in mind that we cuss and tease here, and have a thick skin and you will be alright.

    Chers!
    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.
  8. PizDoff is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/10/2007 9:45am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hello jkittredge, I appreciate your feedback on my post.
    I'll respond to it when I have more time tonight.

    Didn't know 'traditional' schools did 'self-defense' style drills.
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  9. Neildo is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/10/2007 11:04am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wounded Ronin
    Well, to be fair, jkittredge did do a point by point address. But, yeah. Still. It's 2+ years old.
    ah, hehe....my bad. I thought he just reposted that chunk and wrote "Thank you for your time." I didn't see the point-by-point until later.
  10. PizDoff is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/10/2007 2:25pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jkittredge
    JK: I would say that this is a misinterpretation of the interview that the reporter had with Miss Milton. Among martial arts schools that teach kicking with a "chambered" position, it is fairly common to use the term "flamingo"... particularly when teaching children. Her break was actually a "forward heel stomp" using our school vernacular. We do describe the chambered position as a "flamingo" which is how the reporter got that term in the first place.
    So the reporter was ignorant?


    Quote Originally Posted by jkittredge
    JK: I am more than a bit offended by this, and ask that whoever wrote the editor comments please reconsider how they reached this opinion. In fact, running a traditional karate school with the values that the Independent Karate School has is most definitely *not* more profitable than a full time engineering job. Mr. Desmarais senior had reached retirement age, and his partner Mr. Nastasia left his other job because the school needed his attention full time. The sarcasm about the love of teaching is vastly misplaced, and anyone who has visited our school will know how inappropriate the above comment is.
    One or the other. I personally know one gym owner has taken his time AWAY from the kung fu school he co-owns to focus on his job. Simply put, he needs to provide for his family and that comes first.

    The owners of the above article were able to open another school, so that probably means the first school was successful. Successful in raising funds since another school does take some investment.

    Quote Originally Posted by jkittredge
    JK: No. Our issue was primarily a safety concern because our students are primarily under age children. We've witnessed that open tournaments can have very loose definitions of "light contact" and "no contact". We don't want to bring any of our students into an environment that has the potential to be unsafe.

    Bluntly, we don't care that much if our students win or lose. But we do care if they might get hurt. Anyone with any experience in the open tournament arena knows that there are jackasses out there.
    Your students are primarily underage children? Then something like a tournament just might help their developmental skills. There are many tournaments, even point-sparring and kata tournaments in kiddie-karate that have oppurtunities for under-age children.
    Do your 'off-age' students actually compete?
    Is it that you don't compete because you cannot prepare your charges adequately for competition?


    Quote Originally Posted by jkittredge
    Edit: Land swimming..."

    JK: Not quite sure what this is supposed to mean. Is this a criticism of traditional kata? (e.g. Funakoshi's Heians) We teach traditional kata, but it's certainly not a training methodology invented by our school. We find it valuable.
    Land swimming is an anology of learning how to swim without actually doing it. Similar to doing kata without cultivating viable martial ability. This is a criticism of people that only do kata or patterns without application and testing.

    Quote Originally Posted by jkittredge
    "At times, it looked more like a pantomime of fighting. The school is nonviolent, avoiding actual hitting, according to Louis Desmarais, who calls the school’s form of the martial art, classical karate. Edit: How is that classical? People actually beat on each other back then."

    JK: We're a traditional non-contact school. Historically martial arts schools have existed in both contact and non-contact formats. Classical in this description does not imply non-violence, but it is different from many martial arts schools that ignore classical training techniques.


    Thank you for your time.
    You are kiddies day care with a martial arts theme.
    Thank you for taking the time to post. I am open to your response and see your points that you try to make. I never speak from a position of ignorance nor do I close my mind to possibilties that I may be wrong. I hope you are of similar mind, read the responses and dwell on them. I'm sure you may have one point practised realistic martial arts training but no longer endevour to pass on the same practices to your charges.
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