Open guard work

**Aesopian** · Posted On: 11/15/2004 4:31pm

I've been harassing some of you over IM to ask about this, but I find this topic interesting enough to ask about it here:

How much open guard work is taught at your school?
How much open guard work do you personally use in sparring?
Do you wish your school taught more open guard?
Open guard open guard open guard?

By open guard I mean ones such as spider, butterfly, De la Riva, x-guard, and the like. I don't mean that you just forget to close you ankles when you should have and you're giving away leg locks, like I've seen in some recent footage of people sparring. Unless, of course, that's how your school teaches open guard.

As for my school, butterfly and spider guard taught as everyday stuff. One of the first guards I learned was De la Riva, and recently we've been doing x-guard with our butterfly guard stuff. I'm told it's unusual for someone to have already trained in De la Riva and x-guard as a 6-month white belt, but I'm not particularly good at them, though I understand what job they play in positional game, and have had some success with them against other white belts.

How about you?

**Shuma-Gorath** · Posted On: 11/15/2004 4:57pm

I don't even know what De La Riva and x-guard are. Generally if I am not grapevining I keep my guard closed until I have my sweep or attack set up.

**Deadpan Scientist** · Posted On: 11/15/2004 4:58pm

It's standard for Star Jiujitsu. Also, open guard is not only for "when you forget to lock your ankles". When you think about it, any time you go for a triangle or armbar from the bottom position you're transitioning through open guard. So starting off in open guard makes your triangles and armbars faster.

Obviously there are advantages and risks to everything in grappling.

**5FingazofDeath** · Posted On: 11/15/2004 4:59pm

We only use them as transitions. My coach is VERY strict about us opening the guard for no reason. He believes that when you do, the person is one step closer to passing your guard. So we try not to screw around too much with the open guard. But if someone is passing your guard the only options you have are: go to your knees, or open the guard and sweep.

**Deadpan Scientist** · Posted On: 11/15/2004 4:59pm

De La riva guard

**Deadpan Scientist** · Posted On: 11/15/2004 5:01pm

X-guard

**JohnnyS** · Posted On: 11/15/2004 5:03pm

We teach a lot of open guard work at my school. Personally, 99% of the guard work I teach is open guard, but I only teach blue belts and above. All of my own guard work is open, and if I have to start with closed guard I immediately open it. I personally don't like closed guard because it's easier for people to go defensive. I like to open up and when they start to move to pass then I can go for my sweeps and submissions. Plus, having a lower back injury I find it hurts my back to go closed, especially when big guys try to stack me.

I don't think beginners should be using open guard. It's hard enough for beginners to remember what they should be doing without opening their legs and letting their opponent run past. I think it's best that they start with closed guard and learn the basics like cross lapel choke, armbar, kimura etc, as well as the closed guard sweeps. Once they have a better idea of what's going on and how to use their guard and their feet like hands, then it's okay for them to learn how to open their legs. I think they should then learn to use guard where they have one foot in the hip and the other in the bicep. This guard will work their triangles and armbars, plus reaping sweeps, as well as teaching them how to create space, keep their opponent off them with the foot in the hip, and kepp their opponent 180 degrees to them at all times.

We have seperate classes for beginners, intermediate and advanced, so people who are new to BJJ don't start learning things like crucifixes, omoplata or x-guard. I think this helps tremendously because a lot of these techniques are generally useless in the street because that position will mostly only come up against another skilled grappler and require too much peripheral knowledge for whitebelts to be able to apply them. Essentially, beginners should learn the basics first, not advanced techniques.

**Shuma-Gorath** · Posted On: 11/15/2004 5:03pm

Thanks Brand. Those look a little advanced for me though. X-Guard also looks like it would get you killed by the guy's right hand if striking were allowed.

**Te No Kage!** · Posted On: 11/15/2004 5:08pm

We do open guard work in our ne waza class. But our ne waza class is taught by a bjj guy, so that shouldn't be a big shock. We've gone over the spider guard and butterfly guard, and I've been shown the x guard. Just about all of our setups for sweeps and subs come from open guard, so we do open guard drills a lot. Probably the most work we do is with a normal open guard, with a little bit of butterfly guard, here and there. The only reason I don't like to rely too much on butterfly and spider guards is that they are reliant on gi sleeves, and would be difficult for me to pull off in a no gi situation.

**Shuma-Gorath** · Posted On: 11/15/2004 5:12pm

I thought Judo was heavily biased towards the open guard anyway? When I close my guard in our rules-liberal newaza sessions I get people trying the fuckin' scooping pass, although perhaps they feel safe doing it because they think they can just stand out of my triangle.