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  1. #31
    serious harm's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Li Hongzhi is an elnlightened teacher. There have been true teachers whose mission was to teach spiritual teachings, and teach people to cultivate higher throughout history, Jesus, Loa Tzu, many Buddha's, many others, and this millenium is a very important era in history. Falun gong is not religous. No real teacher's teachings were originally religous. But the average person takes the teachings to be religous , misunderstanding them. Religion is what a true spiritual path can be morphrd into, when the teacher is gone and the average people interpet it, with their human minds and human understandings, because they are not yet enlightened so they will still have some misunderstandings, changing the original meaning, with only peices remaining. Falun gong though is spiritual, not religous, maybe when Li Hongzhi is dead, and in 100 years from now perhaps it will be changed by humans, and human mentality.

  2. #32

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    Im only a year 2 student, so I dont expect to have all my facts correct. BUT, from what I have read and learned so far:

    1) nobody knows who REALLY started the FIGHTING SYSTEM known as taijiquan. There are theories about Chen Wanting or Zhangsanfeng. I dont know that anyone really knows. Those two names are promoted based on their fame and political ties of the time. For all we know taijiquan was actually created by some farmer with no famous name or proud accolades, and so history has given the credit to someone else. If you read enough on this youll find theories that go either way.

    2) "taiji" itself is what is born from wuji (nothingness) taiji is an expression of yin/yang (positive/negative) or another way of expessing a balanced state that is in motion. The idea of taijiquan as I understand it is that you remain balanced during fighting. Many moves involve coming to understand the opponents balance and disrupting it thus gaining advantage. (note: balance doesnt always equal the vertical plane) It is said that taiji theory goes beyond just the fighting systems.

    Dinnerbell just got sounded and I was ready to eat the desk anyway. I'll be back.

  3. #33

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    Miguksaram:

    It's funny how oft-repeated TMA tenets like, "Be Honest" don't seem to apply to the advertising department of MA federations. Not that Dahn Hak is, or markets itself as a TMA.

    Still, about that 5000 year history thing, I've not heard such a claim from them here - perhaps thats an extra bonus provided by the fine salesman you met in Chicago. Free with every registration - 5000 years of authentic legitimacy! Despite all that, I think it's a safe assumption that people have been breathing on the Korean peninsula since the first person set foot there, and Dahn Hak is all about the breathing so from a twisted point of view, they might be able to convince themselves that they weren't lying....

    I attended a promotional event "World Culture Open" at the COEX last year. Stacks of MA, mystical, and occult groups showed up to set up booths and get some recognition. The Kuk Son Do booth was well organized, focused on the practice, not the sales pitch and didn't try to compare itself to yoga, taichi, or anything else. Regardless, it is a breath-based form of seated and moving meditation, with a little forms practice for colour. No mention was made to me about a connection to temples, nor was there anything in their literature about that specifically, however, that didn't mean I didn't need to use a grain of salt or two before I left their booth.

    The art that really connects itself to temples is Son Mu Do. Very much a hard-training, self-denying, body-wrecking/reconstructing martial art that produces a very tough individual with great conditioning, flexibility, and techniques - should they survive the training. Of course, a Son Mu Do Lite version is available commercially now...

  4. #34
    Poop Loops's Avatar
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    EVERYBODY knows that Korea is the oldest country in the world, and that Tae Kwon Do is the oldest martial art to ever have existed--that is why it is so d43dly. The Chi energy of past masters is passed down from instructor to student, eventually creating a super martial artist capable of creating a quantum singularity with every punch. A person with this much power is inherently evil, therefore he will have to be stopped by Ashida Kim and his Agents of Justice.

    But yeah, I have a friend who takes Tae Kwon Do and claims that it is the oldest style in the world, and his master (I was like, you his bitch?) could kick anybody's ass. At least in my school, the instructor couldn't speak English very well, so we didn't talk about politics, he just yelled at you if you didn't train. Needless to say he is a fat liar who is proud of going to a technical college. The friend, that is. :)

    PL

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poop-Loops
    EVERYBODY knows that Korea is the oldest country in the world, and that Tae Kwon Do is the oldest martial art to ever have existed--

    PL
    Only the first part of this is true, the oldest MA is Sinanju of course :icon_bigg

  6. #36
    Miguksaram's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=ABTB]Miguksaram:

    It's funny how oft-repeated TMA tenets like, "Be Honest" don't seem to apply to the advertising department of MA federations. Not that Dahn Hak is, or markets itself as a TMA.

    Still, about that 5000 year history thing, I've not heard such a claim from them here - perhaps thats an extra bonus provided by the fine salesman you met in Chicago. Free with every registration - 5000 years of authentic legitimacy! Despite all that, I think it's a safe assumption that people have been breathing on the Korean peninsula since the first person set foot there, and Dahn Hak is all about the breathing so from a twisted point of view, they might be able to convince themselves that they weren't lying....[QUOTE]

    Ahhhh...I see, so they are only selling the snake oil to the round eyes eh? Well that is why we are here, to stop that type of sales pitch.

    The art that really connects itself to temples is Son Mu Do. Very much a hard-training, self-denying, body-wrecking/reconstructing martial art that produces a very tough individual with great conditioning, flexibility, and techniques - should they survive the training. Of course, a Son Mu Do Lite version is available commercially now...
    Thanks. That was the one I heard about. I'm surprised they haven't tried to market that one out here as of yet.
    Jeremy M. Talbott

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  7. #37
    Jekyll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuroyama
    Im only a year 2 student, so I dont expect to have all my facts correct. BUT, from what I have read and learned so far:

    1) nobody knows who REALLY started the FIGHTING SYSTEM known as taijiquan. There are theories about Chen Wanting or Zhangsanfeng. I dont know that anyone really knows. Those two names are promoted based on their fame and political ties of the time. For all we know taijiquan was actually created by some farmer with no famous name or proud accolades, and so history has given the credit to someone else. If you read enough on this youll find theories that go either way.
    There is little to no reason for thinking it is Chen Wanting, see my earlier post. As to weither or not it was Zhangsanfeng, it is interesting that such a relitivly unassuming daoist (apart from his tai chi very little is said about him) was chosen to be the mythical founder of tai chi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickx
    It must suck for legit practitioners of tai chi like Cullion to see their art get all watered down into exercise for seniors.
    Those who esteme qi have no strength. ~ Exposition of Insights into the Thirteen Postures Attrib: Wu Yuxiang founder of Wu style tai chi.

  8. #38

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    <going back to the books>

    He was right, Chen Wanting is credited with the creation of the Chen style (or at least composing a cohesive routine).


    quoting from Mark Chen's: Old Frame Chen Family Taijiquan;

    "...The first recorded reference to Zhang San Feng as originator of Taijiquan occurs about two hundred years later in the Ma Tong Wen edition (1867) of Li Yi Yu's (1832-1892) "Short Preface" to the Taijiquan classics assembled by Wu Yu Xiang (1812-1880) and his brothers. Significantly, Li's 1881 redaction of the same text omits any mention of Zhang San Feng, instead saying that "The creator of Taijiquan is unknown.""

    Which is not to say that NO one knew who created TJQ, just that recorded history is a little uncertain. But in all fairness, when is it ever?

  9. #39
    serious harm's Avatar
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    I was under the impression Zhang San Feng was actually an historical figure, quite known. And it is actually unlikely he had anything directly to do with Taijiquan? It has been menitoned, that perhaps the whole internal external division is a false one. I don't mean though, that there is no internal energy.

    SOme stuff to think about-

    http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/foru...threadid=13834
    http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/foru...threadid=13835
    http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/foru...threadid=13836
    http://sunflower.singnet.com.sg/~limttk/historg1.htm
    http://www.chinafrominside.com/ma/taiji/TJQorigins.html

    It's quite possible there is a Taoist Wudang component to Taijiquan. Chen village is very close, a days walk, from shaolin temple apparently. People probably knew many MA's in the past and passed them through their family or something. No one can deny IMA has a strong Shuai Chaio connection. Combine either military, or self defense MA's with meditative practice, there you go.
    Last edited by serious harm; 11/20/2004 8:19pm at .

  10. #40

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