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  1. Jekyll is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/16/2004 10:02am

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     Style: San shou(tai chi) +judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Okay this is what I've found out about the possible founders of tai chi.

    Chen Wang Ting;

    The idea that Chen Wang Ting was the founder of tai chi, arises from the confusion of Chen Wang-ting of the chen village, who lead a rural militia in suport of the local magistrate (in 1640) and, Chen Wang-ting of from south mancuria who had been an imperial censor and recieved rewards from the emporor before his death in 1630.

    Go Liu-Xin the principle exponent of this idea anounced he had got the two confused in 1980, he had been unable to retract his previous statements before the demise of the gang of four.

    (My source for this: Complete tai chi by dan docerty)

    Chang San Feng was a legandary wandering daoist, the only people to claim he was trained in shaolin kung fu are:
    1) Shaolin kung fu practioners
    2) some chen stylests (presumably to justify the shaolin influences on their forms)
    3) The film twin warriors/Tai chi master

    None of them offer any sources for verrification.

    It was my understanding that along with the passing of buddhism, Boddhirama saw that his followers were having problems with the exercises that he was teaching. Because of this he developed the 18 Forms of Lo Han. It was through these exercises that Taichi was born. Eventually Taichi found its way into other temples and other systems of Taichi started to spring up. I know this is very generic, but I have never done any extended research on this art as of yet.
    See my earlier comment about the attributation of kung fu styles and writen works to legandary figures.

    If you do want a scolarly work on the origions of tai chi I strongly recomend complete tai chi by dan docherty, whilest it doesnt draw any conclusions it examins many of the myths in great and sometimes tedious detail. [/nutriding of lineage master]

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickx
    It must suck for legit practitioners of tai chi like Cullion to see their art get all watered down into exercise for seniors.
    Those who esteme qi have no strength. ~ Exposition of Insights into the Thirteen Postures Attrib: Wu Yuxiang founder of Wu style tai chi.
  2. serious harm is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/16/2004 9:34pm


     Style: Internal/extern

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    One Shaolin/Taijiwuji Zhao Bao tradition I read about say, Damo's major contribution to MAs is the empphasis on qi, intrinsic energy, breath, and mental matery, and his exersices physically inspired the monks to greater spiritual heights. A top student of Damo, Jio Yuan, later left the monastery to seek out Taoist masters in the mountains. He brought back to shaoilin a special way to combine the energies of nature, and to combine the natural fighting abilities of man he already had, with animal fighting techniques

    Later in history Zhang San Feng, who was a master herbalist and acupunturist, and Taoist qigong, traveled to shaolin to learn. When he left shaolin, on his enlightenment he witnessed a Snake fight a Crane. He developed the ZhaoBao Taiji qigong system from that inspiration. His major contributions I think were medicine, herbs, and developing a Taiji ball in the lower abdomen for qigong practice.

    Of couse, some will point out there is no proof Zhang San Feng has anything to do with what is now Taijiquan. But Chen village is very close to shaolin temple. There is a story about how one of the first Chen's owned a slave named Jiang Fa, who I guess was eventually freed, who was supposedly a Wu Dang practitioner. There is a painting of it. But I don't know for sure if it is true either. The Chens, I think have the oldest intact lineage of Taijiquan.
    Last edited by serious harm; 11/16/2004 10:17pm at .
  3. serious harm is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/16/2004 9:46pm


     Style: Internal/extern

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Falun gong is an advanced cultivation practice. It's emphasis is on cultivating truth, compassion, and tolerance. IMO I do not think it is at all a sort of "smorgasborg", or little bits and peices of different stuff, cut and pasted together. It was originally known as Falun Dafa, and has now been made public for the current age.

    It is totally free. Everything to get started can be got free off the internet. It is not about anything but cultivating to be a better person. It is not a social club, it is not a hobby, etc. It is a serious practice.



    http://media1.minghui.org/media/dafa...ruction_01.ram

    http://media1.minghui.org/media/dafa...ruction_02.ram

    http://media1.minghui.org/media/dafa...ruction_03.ram

    http://media1.minghui.org/media/dafa...ruction_04.ram

    http://media1.minghui.org/media/dafa...ruction_05.ram

    http://media1.minghui.org/media/dafa...ExeDemo_07.ram


    http://www.falundafa.org/eng/index.htm

    http://www.falundafa.org/eng/media.htm

    http://www.faluninfo.net/

    http://www.clearwisdom.net/
    Last edited by serious harm; 11/19/2004 4:23pm at .
  4. Thaiboxerken is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/16/2004 9:53pm

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     Style: Kru-MuayThai,GJJ-Blue

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Anyplace that pimps out the belief that Chi is real is a place to be avoided.

    Falun Dafa isn't free, it costs you your critical thinking skills.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire.
  5. NextGuard is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/16/2004 9:59pm

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     Style: Street

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by serious harm
    Falun gong is an advanced cultivation practice. It's emphasis is on cultivating truth, compassion, and tolerance. IMO I do not think it is at all a sort of "smorgasborg", or little bits and peices of different stuff, cut and pasted together. It was originally known as Falun Dafa, and has now been made public for the current age.

    It is totally free. Everything to get started can be got free off the internet. It is not about anything but cultivating to be a better person. It is not a social club, it is not a hobby, etc.


    This isn't my field but I know some very serious Chi Gong folks... each time they've come back from China they say it is becoming more and more apparent the the Falun Gong leader, Li Hongzhi is setting himself up as a god and that is undermining whatever good may have come before.
    NextGuard = Paul from Atlanta

    Ten years experience can be ten true years or one year repeated ten times.
  6. Jekyll is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/16/2004 10:09pm

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     Style: San shou(tai chi) +judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'd like to say that all advanced falun gung practioners should be hung by their thumbs untill they admit they cant fly.

    However given that the chinese goverment does still do that sort of thing I proberbly shouldnt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickx
    It must suck for legit practitioners of tai chi like Cullion to see their art get all watered down into exercise for seniors.
    Those who esteme qi have no strength. ~ Exposition of Insights into the Thirteen Postures Attrib: Wu Yuxiang founder of Wu style tai chi.
  7. Thaiboxerken is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/16/2004 10:26pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Li Hongzhi does definitely give a deity impression to the followers. He tells people that he can channel chi through himself to people from any distance. Cultivation of "chi" doesn't come from the air anymore, it comes from Li Hongzhi.

    Of course, SH will say that it's a lie, even if I post the relevant text from Li Honghzi's book.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire.
  8. ABTB is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/17/2004 8:37am


     Style: Haidong Gumdo / ص˵

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dahn Hak has been a popular breathing-based form of meditation and exercise in Korea for almost 10 years now. One of their most popular books, translated into several languages, called Brain Breathing, mixes a lot of real and pseudo science into a very 'interesting' basis for their practices. Another readily available book by this prolific group is called Dahn Meditation and it further explains their practices and their organization. Just the list of things that signify enlightenment should set off mental alarm bells - basically as it deals with divesting oneself of worldly wealth; donating said wealth to the Dahn Hak organization being a quick and easy way of doing so. Not only do you get salvation, but you can earn trips to the cool compounds and training facilities that the founders live in...
    Competing groups in Korea are Kuk Son Do, and Jeung San Do. Both of these alternate breath-based meditation arts also employ claims that students will progress toward enlightenment, improve health and digestion, cultivate ki, said ki doing things like spontaneously manifesting as inspired martial skills, or healing. Jeung San Do's site even claims it can cure illnesses like diabetes. Some of these places also offer yoga, or yoga-like material, as well as Korean (Yang style) TaiChi Chuan- which is pronounced Taeguk-Kwan here.
    Of the three, I got the fewest alarms from Kuk Son Do, but this sort of art isn't for me. All three are very easily used and abused for profit and the spreading of utter BS.
  9. Miguksaram is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/17/2004 9:28am

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     Style: Shorei-ryu & Kumdo & TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ABTB
    Dahn Hak has been a popular breathing-based form of meditation and exercise in Korea for almost 10 years now.
    So the 5,000 year old lineage started 10 years ago. :) Nice at least TKD's 2000 year old lineage started 50 years ago. :eusa_liar

    One of their most popular books, translated into several languages, called Brain Breathing, mixes a lot of real and pseudo science into a very 'interesting' basis for their practices. Another readily available book by this prolific group is called Dahn Meditation and it further explains their practices and their organization. Just the list of things that signify enlightenment should set off mental alarm bells - basically as it deals with divesting oneself of worldly wealth; donating said wealth to the Dahn Hak organization being a quick and easy way of doing so. Not only do you get salvation, but you can earn trips to the cool compounds and training facilities that the founders live in...
    Ahhh yes...for a few thousand dollars you too can live like a peasent in Korea. If their training facilities are based on the country side of Korea you can best bet it will not be an experience you'll soon forget.


    Competing groups in Korea are Kuk Son Do, and Jeung San Do.
    Is this the same Kuk Son Do, that was based in the temples in Korea?

    Thanks for the info on this.
    Jeremy M. Talbott

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    "Bullshido isn't just a place to hang out when you're browsing the net. We really are trying to accomplish something fucking extraordinary here that nobody's ever had the balls to do before."
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    "Which is better, to learn the truth, or to enjoy the illusion of being right when you are not?"
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    My definition of Ki is our energy. it's rather hard to explain it in words. It's not some mystical type of energy like white people...


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  10. NextGuard is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/17/2004 10:49am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ThaiboxerKen
    Li Hongzhi does definitely give a deity impression to the followers. He tells people that he can channel chi through himself to people from any distance. Cultivation of "chi" doesn't come from the air anymore, it comes from Li Hongzhi.
    That matches what my friends have been telling me about him.... One of them knew him long ago and liked him and thought he had a lot to offer. Now they are concerned that his claims to deity status will cause a backlash that will crush all of Chi Gong in China.
    Last edited by NextGuard; 11/17/2004 11:29am at .
    NextGuard = Paul from Atlanta

    Ten years experience can be ten true years or one year repeated ten times.
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