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  1. A.D.D is offline
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    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2004 2:58pm

    supporting member
     Style: Fish Oil

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ninjas age like fine wine.
  2. Freddy is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2004 3:28pm

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     Style: Be Happy

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ronin69
    Ninjutsu, at best, was a sub-system taught in many schools of classical bujutsu in Japan.
    The Tenshen Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu, is an example, they teach ninjustu in their curriculum.
    So does the Yagyu Shinkage Ryu.
    Are you sure about that? From my understanding most bujutsu schools would be offended if they are said to have taught ninjutsu. What I hear is that certain bujutsu schools are taught methods on how to defend against ninjas (thats the feudal ninjas not todays fake ones of course).
    Ghost of Charles Dickens
  3. Anna Kovacs is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/19/2004 3:48pm

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     Style: Dancing the Spears

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Defending against today's ninja's is easy. Just don't pay their $10,000 fee and they wont attack you.
  4. VikingPower is offline
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    Yes Koto got his name changed, quit asking...

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2004 3:55pm

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     Style: Kyokushin Karate

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Freddy
    Are you sure about that? From my understanding most bujutsu schools would be offended if they are said to have taught ninjutsu. What I hear is that certain bujutsu schools are taught methods on how to defend against ninjas (thats the feudal ninjas not todays fake ones of course).
    Many of the bugei skills were actually designed to hide the ninja skills inside, hence the similarities. And while yes, samurai and the like may have disliked ninja, any good daimyo with over 10,000 koku had his own shinobi to be sure, as they knew the advantages to having them.
  5. Colin is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/19/2004 5:02pm

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     Style: MT/BJJ/MMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AnnaTrocity
    Defending against today's ninja's is easy. Just don't pay their $10,000 fee and they wont attack you.
    Great call..
  6. Spunky is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2004 6:03pm


     Style: Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Are you sure about that? From my understanding most bujutsu schools would be offended if they are said to have taught ninjutsu.
    http://www.koryu.com/guide/katorishinto.html
    Lists it in the system description. It isn't listed in Yagyu Shinkage ryu description... maybe it is not be a formalized sub-section but is part of the oral teachings, which seems to have often been the case with this category of techniques.

    Kukishin ryu also contained what might now be called "ninjutsu," including 'secret scouting techniques,' disguise and impersonation, weather divination, etc.

    From http://www.shinjin.co.jp/kuki/hyoho/index_e.html :
    "Katyufujin-hen remind us of secret scouting techniques, but they exist only in the form of oral instruction; there exist documents 2 concerning detailed instruction of the techniques, but the actual techniques are lost today."
    I have some other resources on this ryu that mention a couple other vague details regarding "ninjutsu" in the system but my impression is that some might exist in written form but the techniques are lost.

    In short, there were no such thing as "ninja" per se, but samurai doing things later referred to as ninjutsu. These tactics were used in any region of the world during military and political strife. Any imaginary distinction or even the notion that such tactics were looked down upon, came about in times of relative peace when the samurai were slowly losing their power and looked for ways to maintain a sense of elitism. Bujutsu systems that predate the Tokagawa shogunate almost definately contain "ninjutsu" though it was not labelled as such at the time.
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