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  1. Judobum is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/28/2009 2:21am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Judo for short stocky guys

    One of the wonderful things about judo is that pretty much anyone can do it. Tall guys, short guys, fat guys, skinny guys. There is such a wide range of techniques that anyone can really find their niche and participate.

    That said, you tend to tailor your style to what works which will somewhat be defined by your body type. I am a short, stocky guy, about 5' 8" and running 85kg now. In my competitive days I was -65 kg, -71/73 kg and -81 kg. Once I moved up from -65 kg to -71 kg I almost always found myself shorter than my opponents and started to tailor my style more to that disparity.

    The first high level tournament I fought at -71 kg was a US Junior Championships. It was a bonus tournament for those who had done well at nationals, in Miami, free trip. I decided to fight up since I didn't want to cut weight and they'd given us the option. I won my first match with a quick throw and I remember lining up for my second. I looked across the mat and realized my opponent looked a full head taller than me. My first thought "Man he's huge!". My second "Hey, his legs are right there for the taking". Bow, step forward, hajime, double, ippon! And so my short stocky style began...

    Things to keep in mind are that your edge is your low center of gravity. This makes you harder to throw with hip throws and makes it easier for you to get under your opponents. That's pretty much the key to my style, always moving under then up. I have short, slow legs and don't like ashi-waza so that's contributed as well. Now here's a few suggestions for specific throws.

    1) Pick-ups. Morote-gari (double leg), ankle picks, te-waza. It's easier to get to your opponent's legs since you're right there. The main thing to remember is that you're doing judo, not wrestling so the action of your throw should be upwards and out. You want a prettier, higher amplitude throw for ippon rather than a quick takedown.

    2) Uchi-mata. I love uchi-mata but I do the hopping version. I go from a sleeve- underhook grip. I turn in at a shallower angle and sort of rest my raised leg on the opponent's inner thigh. I then hop a few times while pulling on the sleeve arm and rotating my shoulders. If your opponent is getting away from you you can immediately stop the uchi-mata and turn in for an ankle pick. When I have more mat time in the summer I'll try to do a video of this one.

    3) Drop seoi-nage. The default throw for a short guy. The problem is that if you're stocky your shoulders tend to get in the way when you turn in. I tend to use this as more of a set-up throw into an ankle pick. You basically do your drop and immediately turn back with a ko-uchi-gari while picking the ankle. Very effective throw if not the prettiest and works around the lack of turn in since you're not banking on finishing with the seoi-nage.

    4) Tomoe-nage. It's easier for a short guy to get under than someone with long legs. My personal favorite is yoko-tomoe, I can't really do any other version now. I set mine up with a ko-uchi. If your opponent manages to spin out you can do a juji-gatame as well. It's a wicked throw and I catch people all the time with it. The key is not to rush once you've dropped, you wait a second for how your opponent reacts, then lock up his arms and do your second effort with your hips and leg to get him over.

    There's a few suggestions. Feel free to throw up any questions or comments.
  2. NorthWest is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2009 4:45pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Judobum View Post
    2) Uchi-mata. I love uchi-mata but I do the hopping version. I go from a sleeve- underhook grip. I turn in at a shallower angle and sort of rest my raised leg on the opponent's inner thigh. I then hop a few times while pulling on the sleeve arm and rotating my shoulders. If your opponent is getting away from you you can immediately stop the uchi-mata and turn in for an ankle pick. When I have more mat time in the summer I'll try to do a video of this one.
    I have long since given up on my quest for a picture perfect, classical Uchimata, and instead am happy to get about 80% of my ippons with the hopping version.
    I was shown quite an interesting variation where you come at a shallow angle, like you say, but are hitting them quite low down on their leg - anywhere between ankle and knee.
    Pull that sleeve, which you are gripping low, down towards the mat, hop and rotate and over he'll go.
    It's nice, as it seems to come from nothing and it really does pop them over for ippon nicely.

    I'm loving the Uchi to ankle pick now too. I picked up a couple of waza aris with that last weekend.
  3. Ryno is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/04/2009 5:07pm


     Style: FMA, Jujutsu/Judo/SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm a bigger guy 6'2, 230, but I absolutely love the uchimata to ankle pick combo. And under SAMBO rules, that ankle pick drops straight into a quick leglock.
  4. Coach Josh is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/06/2009 9:26am

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     Gladiators Academy Lafayette, LA Style: Judo, MMA, White Trash JJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Never grab the short guy with good hips over the back. Its a sure way to take a ride in Ogoshi seoinage or teguruma.

    I would say that after awhile ashiwaza will become your best friend. I was average at 71kg but tall for 65kg and had to change my seoinage because of the height difference. Ashiwaza helped with that a lot.

    Against the club I was the shortest guy there so I was always using foot picks and low techniques in randori. Being shorter than your opponent is a good thing if you know how to use it. More high altitude Judo is open to the shorter guy. On the other hand a good grip fighter with ashiwaza is a nightmare.
    Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.
  5. theotherserge is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/06/2009 10:19am

    Join us... or die
     Style: sambo/crossfit

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Coach Josh, for the Tsurikomi Goshi and/or Seoi Nage ,some Judoka'll drop into a full squat underneath their Uki. Almost like so:


    I think this photo^ is a little late on the fit-in, I've seen even deeper squats for the throw. As well as more space exploited between back/chest of Tori/uki.

    A Taiwan kid out here does a full squat into the throw to where you're feeling like you are kuzushi'd over your knees rather than hips. It's very cool, but I've never figured out how to do this my self (6' tall, longish legs) it feels like it takes me too long to drop-down and once I'm there I miss my delivery: either I lose my forward drive because I'm settled into the deep squat or I'm not hitting the release point early enough.

    It does seem to be proportionally better for typical Asians-i.e. generally shorter legs.

    discuss? thoughts? thanks!
    Many things we do naturally become difficult only when we try to make them intellectual subjects. It is possible to know so much about a subject that you become totally ignorant.
    -Mentat Text Two (dicto)
  6. Coach Josh is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/06/2009 10:51am

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Gladiators Academy Lafayette, LA Style: Judo, MMA, White Trash JJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yea serge that is just not a good throw for long legged guys. My coach, Scott Moore, used the squat thrust seoinage with the double fist grip. I did drop seoinage more like the Korean Jeon.

    Scott has short stocky legs while I am long and skinny. That's the main difference that and my knees are blown up. Tsurikomi goshi are always a bitch for belt tests when I have someone my height.

    That squat thrust works better against guys who do jigo hantai to stop the throw. You are just getting lower than them and lifting them up. Better suited for lightweight players since their asses stay about 6 inches off the ground when they play.

    Seoinage is just not a tall man's go to throw. My buddy, Joe, who is 6'4" would drop for one every once in awhile just to keep you on your toes. For him it was more like a regular guy doing a standing morote though, LOL.
    Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.
  7. cuatro76 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/06/2009 11:20am


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Josh View Post
    Yea serge that is just not a good throw for long legged guys. My coach, Scott Moore, used the squat thrust seoinage with the double fist grip. I did drop seoinage more like the Korean Jeon.

    Scott has short stocky legs while I am long and skinny. That's the main difference that and my knees are blown up. Tsurikomi goshi are always a bitch for belt tests when I have someone my height.

    That squat thrust works better against guys who do jigo hantai to stop the throw. You are just getting lower than them and lifting them up. Better suited for lightweight players since their asses stay about 6 inches off the ground when they play.

    Seoinage is just not a tall man's go to throw. My buddy, Joe, who is 6'4" would drop for one every once in awhile just to keep you on your toes. For him it was more like a regular guy doing a standing morote though, LOL.
    I developed a pretty good drop seoi by training with Scott and Larry in Denver. Which is exactly what Larry tried to not teach me because I'm lanky at 6'. But now I'm trying to work more on leg throws again. I like Osoto set up with a seoi grip.
  8. theotherserge is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/06/2009 11:50am

    Join us... or die
     Style: sambo/crossfit

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Josh View Post
    Yea serge that is just not a good throw for long legged guys. My coach, Scott Moore, used the squat thrust seoinage with the double fist grip. I did drop seoinage more like the Korean Jeon.

    Scott has short stocky legs while I am long and skinny. That's the main difference that and my knees are blown up. Tsurikomi goshi are always a bitch for belt tests when I have someone my height.

    That squat thrust works better against guys who do jigo hantai to stop the throw. You are just getting lower than them and lifting them up. Better suited for lightweight players since their asses stay about 6 inches off the ground when they play.

    Seoinage is just not a tall man's go to throw. My buddy, Joe, who is 6'4" would drop for one every once in awhile just to keep you on your toes. For him it was more like a regular guy doing a standing morote though, LOL.
    Us Westerners seem to do better with-what seems to me- uki-goshi based throws: uki-goshi. uchimata, harai-goshi etc. Where you don't have to drop your level@knees as much as with Seoi-nage.

    I have an ok, seoi-mechanically speaking-it just takes about half-an-hour for the uki to go around! Uki-goshi and the like are much quicker for me.

    Not that this tread is about us long-legged giants, but the comparisons are interesting. Shorter leg/torso=quicker velocity in hip thrusting. Olympic power-lifters are generally selected (self-selected) for shorter legs for similar reasons...
    Many things we do naturally become difficult only when we try to make them intellectual subjects. It is possible to know so much about a subject that you become totally ignorant.
    -Mentat Text Two (dicto)
  9. Coach Josh is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/06/2009 12:47pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Gladiators Academy Lafayette, LA Style: Judo, MMA, White Trash JJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by cuatro76 View Post
    I developed a pretty good drop seoi by training with Scott and Larry in Denver. Which is exactly what Larry tried to not teach me because I'm lanky at 6'. But now I'm trying to work more on leg throws again. I like Osoto set up with a seoi grip.

    Sadly training with Scott you had no choice but to develop a seoinage, LOL. Yea that lapel grip Ippon to Osoto is murder.

    LOL the progression of Larry telling you I can hear in my head. I love that guy. I still have the clinic he did in Lafayette on VHS and refer to it often. I call it my bible.
    Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.
  10. ignatzami is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/06/2009 3:19pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Once I got over my bad knees, started squatting properly and got a decent set of knee pads I started throwing both standing and drop Seoi Nage. However, shortly after I was shown Osoto And Sode(sp?) Makikomi. They have become my bread and butter throws at 6'3" 305lb.
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