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  1. teepyoace is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    13

    Posted On:
    8/22/2007 11:56am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kali, TKD, Jits

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    ATA McDojos in MN - a personal account of deceptive hiring practices.

    So these were posted on craigslist under 2 categories: SALES and Education/teaching
    Here 's the ad

    ASSISTANT KARATE INSTRUCTOR WANTED - WILL TRAIN
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Reply to: xxxxxxxxxx@hotmail.com
    Date: 2007-07-18, 4:15PM CDT


    Some people call it their DREAM JOB.

    We are looking for people to assist in growing our Karate Schools. No experience necessary.

    This is what you can expect from US:
    A professional fast moving business.
    A business system set-up to ensure your success.
    Opportunity to help people of all ages better themselves through martial arts.
    Action packed day full of variety and fun people.
    Compensation package 0f $25k - $100k
    Get in the best shape of your life.

    This is what we expect from YOU:
    Success driven.
    Enjoy working with people of all ages.
    Able to recruit new students.
    Assist in helping students attain their next belt level.
    Leadership traits.
    Get in the best shape of your life and earn an income to support your desired lifestyle.

    We are part of the largest martial arts organization in the world. We specialize in teaching families. We are excited to add success driven people to our team.

    Again, no martial arts experience needed, you just need to bring the right attitude.

    Send resumes to:
    xxx xxxxxxxx
    ATA Martial Arts
    email - xxxxxxxxxx@hotmail.com
    fax - 952-xxx-xxxx

    I've trained in Kali (current dogbrother C Cerebus), TKD BB/non McDojo, and a Blue in jits. I loved the part about "no martial arts experience needed". I looked at the money he was offering and jumped. I studied business in college and I must admit that this looked pretty good, the money at least. Well I interviewed with the guy (we'll call him J) and OMG. It wasn't just a McDojo but I think the master spawn! He had scripts he memorized and had the other instructors memorize to say to "customers" and canned responses if they had questions, there was a picture show that accompanied the speach. He had a tiered pay system in place too! It was just like some of the other articles written about the ATA, I thought the descriptions might have been a little exaggerated so I read them with a grain of salt-nope, they were dead on. Right down to the friggin' wavemaster. The owner "J" owned 3 schools and get this, on the mirror on the front was the week's lessons-he told me "the other 2 schools are doing the same lesson right now". And he was proud of it. I almost cried but I was thinking about the money, just to teach MA. He wanted to attract 20 new students a month! And that was how he was able to justify offering that obscene amount of money/frigging commission! Anyway he loved that I had MA training and business experience and asked my opinion on how to attract more customers. He intimated that I had the job and said that it would include benefits. He told me i'd meet the other instructor/owner/his sister in a couple of days. Well that turned into a few weeks and I checked on his website online. The friggin bastard used one of the main ideas I had given him and not informed me. He emailed me giving excuses and pushing back the date. Today he finally called me and said he was selling his Chanhassan location and doesn't need an instructor. Needless to say, thank god he was on the phone. Because if he'd been there in person I would have administered a beatdown. Be careful of McDojos not just to train at but also their hiring practices.

    Teepyoace
  2. teepyoace is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    13

    Posted On:
    8/24/2007 9:41am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kali, TKD, Jits

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Update on ATA McDojo in South West suburbs of MN. The ads of this posting on craigslist are still on but Jon's (oops), J's email doesn't seem to be working. And for all you wannabe McDojo-ers his Chanhassen location is supposedly for sale.
  3. cyrijl is offline
    cyrijl's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    3,796

    Posted On:
    8/24/2007 10:22am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Why did having this lesson's schedule on the mirror bother you?
  4. Captain Spaulding is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    hmm... it's awful dark in here
    Posts
    794

    Posted On:
    8/24/2007 11:21am


     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    From my experience with ATA schools, it sounds about par-for-the course. And I doubt they're the biggest org. in TKD, let alone all martial arts. The WTF is huge.
  5. jjytmk is offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    3

    Posted On:
    8/24/2007 4:45pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Okay man, gotta learn to use paragraphs. But other than that, I was GOING to say that perhaps he needed someone in an administrative roll, but his line that says "help kids attain the next rank" seems to say otherwise. Good find out there!
  6. chalkieusa is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Bel Air, Maryland
    Posts
    368

    Posted On:
    8/24/2007 10:16pm


     Style: Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My experience with these ATA schools is that they claim to compete alot, and produce "champions".

    However, they only compete among themselves (other ATA schools only) and never in outside or open tournaments.

    And of course, 2 years training to be a Black Belt, along with 8 and 10 year BB instructors!

    So the pressure sales pitch as well as contracts seems to be right in line with the horror stories I get from some of my students as tehy come to train with me.
  7. MAOakley is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Oklahoma City
    Posts
    30

    Posted On:
    8/25/2007 1:00am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ/Vale Tudo ala Lovato

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As an original ATA Black Belt I can say: the NEW system sucks. If you can get in with Master Clark or Allemehier you are ok, because they follow HU Lee's model which is different from the highly corporate McDojo that dominates that landscape now. This is part of why I am no longer affiliated with the ATA. I never promoted past 1st Dan in protest( Just as my instructor never moved past 3rd Dan in 15 years) to hopefully drive the point that this is not a business but an MA. The ATA has some fabulous programs, but limits them to those who are willing pay. It is sad really. I bled for my red collar, yet now if you pay $150-$300 you too can have the same collar that I earned....even if you are not a Black Belt. Too sad. I love the ATA for 1% of their instructors and despise them for everything else. Don't discount ATA Black Belts, but the system. It is not our fault.
  8. Askari is offline

    The Bottom Brick

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2,069

    Posted On:
    8/25/2007 7:37am


     Style: BJJ, Ju-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Great story, glad you went in and got the information first hand.

    But one part doesnt add up:

    How can you get a non-McDojo TKD BB?
    "Sifu, I"m niether - I'm a fire dragon so don't **** with me!"
  9. teepyoace is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    13

    Posted On:
    8/25/2007 10:40am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kali, TKD, Jits

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My instructor was a marine stationed in Korea and learned martial arts there. As stated earlier by MAOakley don't discount TKD BBs. He said ATA but I never had any affiliation with them other than responding to the job offer. If you need "fighter's" that use TKD do you think Bas Rutten (BB TKD) came out of a McDojo? Or Vernon White (also a BB in TKD)? Alive training can be and should be applied to any MA.
  10. Askari is offline

    The Bottom Brick

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2,069

    Posted On:
    8/25/2007 10:48am


     Style: BJJ, Ju-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In reverse order:
    Quote Originally Posted by teepyoace
    Alive training can be and should be applied to any MA.
    No, Tai Chi will still suck.

    Quote Originally Posted by teepyoace
    If you need "fighter's" that use TKD do you think Bas Rutten (BB TKD) came out of a McDojo?
    No, he came out of a Kyokushin school.

    Quote Originally Posted by teepyoace
    My instructor was a marine stationed in Korea and learned martial arts there.
    No, if your instructor is tough, this does not automatically make you tough.

    Or is that just a variation on the whole, the military does it, so it must work?
    "Sifu, I"m niether - I'm a fire dragon so don't **** with me!"
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