Article: Kurt Angle, Owned by Shootfighter?
Kurt Angle, Owned by Shootfighter?
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<i>The following is from Dave Meltzer:
The Kurt Angle-Daniel Puder deal from last night's Smackdown is really interesting. On MMA message boards, this has turned into the biggest story in a long time, and the funny part is, many MMA board people don't get the big picture at all and hate pro wrestling. I've seen some talk on pro wrestling boards, but while I've gotten tons of phone calls about it, I've gotten almost no e-mails about it, so I don't think many fans watching saw what really happened. Just to answer a few questions on it. It was real. If you don't follow fighting, Puder had Angle locked in the Kimura, or keylock as Tazz called it, although Tazz didn't let on the move was fully executed. Not only was Angle not getting out of the move, but most MMA fighters would have tapped already. Angle couldn't tap for obvious reasons. The ref counted a three even though Puder's shoulders weren't fully down, trying to end the thing, because the reality was Angle would have been in surgery had it gone a few seconds longer or had Puder not given up the hold. My impression is, since this was a taped show, that nobody in enough power in the company actually understood what happened and let it air, and figured most would see it as a pinfall in 40 seconds. And they were 98% correct, between the commentary and the pinfall, that is how most saw it. It was only when it was all over MMA boards last night that "unknown shootfighter really beats Kurt Angle" and was the hottest topic all night, that they took the footage of it off their web site, and replaced it with copy that said, "Angle mauled Nawrocki, before taking volunteers, next pinning Daniel Puder in a slightly tougher, but still relatively easy match." This is when you know a company is doomed. When God hands them an angle that would get people talking like nothing they've been able to create on their own, given them the potential for legit water cooler talk had they played it right, and they are so blind they go in the opposite direction. Tazz called it like, "well, so much for the UFC." Yeah, and so much for The Invasion angle as well. </i>
Another article on the same site, goes on to say:
<i>Credit: Dave Scherer of PWInsider
As you would expect, Kurt Angle was less than happy backstage at Smackdown after almost being forced to tap out to Tough Enough contestant Daniel Puder. Downright ticked off would probably be the best way to describe his mood. The unscripted nature of the contest was the main reason that Angle was made to look so bad since Puder just reacted to the situation and could have forced Angle to submit had the referees not thought quickly and counted a pin that wasn’t there on Puder. While there are some workers in the locker room who haven't exactly been fans of Angle's politics backstage of late, the general feeling was that the company is putting the workers in bad situations by having them in "shoot" scenarios, especially given the segments over the last two weeks with Angle and The Big Show. The phrase "the business is a work for a reason" has been repeated to me a lot over the last few days.
Total Comments 22
11/06/2004 2:05pm, #2
There is already a thread devoted to this in the combat sports discussion forum.
Here is what I said there:
The whole thing was prearranged. Puder wasn't trying to sub Angle. He was trying to make it look like he was.
It is obvious to me, as a prowrestling fan my entire life, that Angle and Puder were told to wrestle for a few seconds, neither gaining the upper hand, and then go to the ground with Puder on bottom. Puder was supposed to go for the kimura and Angle was supposed to let him have it. Puder would almost tap out Angle, but lose due to him making the rookie mistake of going for a sub while on his back in a wrestling match. If anything, Puder fucked up by not making sure his shoulders were down.
Even the promotion of Puder as a UFC fighter is a work, as they call it in the business. His MMA record is 4-0, but he's never fought in the UFC.
11/08/2004 4:56am, #3
11/08/2004 8:31am, #4
11/08/2004 9:45am, #5Originally Posted by Punisher
Punisher, he posted it here for it to appear as news.Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
11/08/2004 5:00pm, #6
Originally Posted by ronin69"Quiet fool before I am kicking the butt!"
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11/13/2004 12:45pm, #7Originally Posted by The Wastrel
11/15/2004 10:28pm, #8
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My dial-up isn't fast enough to get the whole video but from what I can tell isn't the guy on bottom on the wrong side for the "kimura"? He's got Angle's left leg wrapped up but he's cranking on the right arm. To have enough leverage he would have needed Angle's left arm.
11/16/2004 6:28pm, #9
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Finally got a high-speed connection at work and was able to see it all the way through. He did have it if he wanted it, even from that side. You always have to wonder if it was a work with them though.
11/24/2004 11:09pm, #10
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As a new Bjj student to see that lock on Kurt Angle makes me wonder why the WWE whould allow one of its stars to lock horns with a reality based fighter.