The Groundfighting FAQ. Help wanted.

[supercrap]

I'm not going to claim eye-gouges don't work, but I will say that the person with the greatest grappling skill will have more chance of applying it. For example, if I'm mounted on someone, then I've got a far better chance of succeeding at the eye-gouge than the person underneath me.

Hope Johnny doesn't mind, I thought that was a pearl of wisdom for all the eye gougers out there.

[Gypsy Jazz]

On the matter of anti-grapple:

Anti-grappling really doesn't exsist much. Yes, if some one grabs you to grapple with you, and you hit them hard, it will work and they will let go sometimes. Not always, not never, but sometimes. Once you are on the ground against a grappler though, you can pretty much forget it. Just as the trained striker will be able to do all those nasty things like eye gouge and knee stomp better than an untrained person standing, a grappler will be able to do these things on the ground.

Have fun biting someone's ankle as they put in you in an armbar. It may hurt them. Maybe even a lot. But that's nothing compared to having a broken arm. If you can pull off one of these miracle "anti-grapple" moves before it is finalized you have a much better chance of escape. But how will you see it coming if you've never learned to grapple? Rather than kicking and crying as you're in a heel hook or achilles lock after your mystical and great anti-grapple has failed you, you could actually train to grapple and realize "oh ****, they are grabbing for my ankle...better pull it close to me fast."

Therefore the best "anti-grapple" is to learn to grapple. You don't have to be a BJJ black belt (although it could always help), but you could at very least learn some basics and practice every once in a while. So sure, learn your anti-grapple and see what happens when you are caught in a triangle getting choked out. You're in between the guy's legs, where has the mighty idea of just grabbing their naughty bits and squeezing gotten you other than unconcious?

[KentckyFriedRat]

It's also essential to have a strong ground game if you want to be able to fight on the street, whether you are a stand up fighter or not. You can be the best guy at MT or boxing and it won't make a difference if you don't know how to stay on your feet, and escape from the ground when taken there. Only grappling training prepares you for this. Look at Tyson and Lewis when they fought at their weigh in. Once they started throwing they didn't even really hit eachother before clinching and falling all over each other. Another case in example-- Guy Mezger VS. Jason Fairn in the UFC. Mezger was a champion kickboxer...but he had no ground game. Fairn didn't either. They spent the whole fight falling all over each other. They had no idea how to stay on their feet and had no idea what to do on the ground once there, either to fight there or to get back on their feet. They couldn't stay standing up-AND this didn't even involves obstacles for them to trip over!


***If you think striking someones arm or hand is a way to disarm them, you've got another thing coming. It might work once in a while, but most of the time you're not going to disarm.

[Hedgehogey]

What i'm looking here is stock answers I can copy and paste when combatting anti grappling fags. Remember indentation, seperation into paragraphs. Address a specific question.

[supercrap]

Hedgehogey, you can stick JohnnyS's that I quoted re:eyegouging in the eyegouging section.

[Hedgehogey]

Such as the following:

Q: Why don't you roll on concrete instead of a mat?

A: For safety reasons. The mat protects the person who is being taken down (IE the person who's been outwrestled).

Q: Where can I see concrete evidence of the unworkability of "anti-grappling" techniques and the neccesity of learning grappling and groundfighting?

A: On the internet, the download sections of Bullshido.net and Subfighter.net have many clips of grappler vs. striker fights.

The Ultimate Fighting championships one through five brought fighters from many different styles, grappling and striking, together in no rules matches. Vale Tudo matches continue in Brazil and sometimes in the USA and Japan.

The gracie jiujitsu in action videotapes show the famous gracie brothers fighting challenge matches against many other styles.

[supercrap]

Ok then:

-Eye gouging, biting, etc. and why they are not a substitute for good positional control

The non-grappler will claim to resort to such infallible techniques as eyegouging, biting and / or genital crushing techniques. The reasons why this is bullshido are as follows:

1. How often do these strikers actually train these movements? The answer is usually not very often. Thus, they are a somewhat risky method of countering a grappler, who has practiced the movements they will be using many times before on resisting opponents.

2. Eyegouging, biting and genital mandhandling are of course very uncomfortable for those on the recieving end, but they are not instant fight-enders. Resorting to these techniques suggests a 'last chance' situation, whereby the grappler has you under their control and you are trying a last ditch attempt to escape or injure the grappler. If you do not either gouge the eye right out of the socket and put your thumb in their brain, crush their nuts even through various layers of clothing, or bite a rather large chunk from their body, they will continue to choke you to unconsciousness or break / disable a joint or limb.

3. What you can do to them, they can do to you. In other words. if a grappler can beat you under a specific ruleset, chances are that when those rules are lifted, they can beat you even worse. There is no unwritten law in life that states only kung fu weenies can poke someone in the eye or squeeze some testicles.

Which brings us to the last point,

4. Whatever move you claim to be able to pull out of the bag during 'anti-grappling', chances are a grappler can not only do the same move to you, but can use their skill and experience of fighting in that range to put themselves in a much better position than you to apply the move, and also have the knowledge and experience to defend against it far better than a non-grappler.



Wow, all this and I am still a big Wing Chun fan...

[Thaiboxerken]

I'd just tap out, then beat you up afterwards!

I had a roommate that actually said this to me, and he was serious. I had to punish him afterwards.

[Transcendent Sunchips]

Can somebody properly address the shoot?

Theorists believe that the shoot is executed from a great distance like a football tackle. This is why most believe that a simple side step, palm strike to the ear, or knee to the face will take down any grappler trying to shoot because they can see it coming. Effective shoots are used from close range and are typically set up via punch combinations or by causing the opponent to break their balance prior to shooting.

Feel free to elaborate on what I've started and take credit for it.

[Hedgehogey]

Good job, gentlemen. Keep the questions and answers coming.