The Groundfighting FAQ. Help wanted.

**Kiozz** · Posted On: 3/28/2005 4:35am

Originally Posted by tokyo ranger

Over here (Europe), you have to have a match againts a pro-level kickboxer, for instance.

Is this true? You can't just walk in a pro ring in most european countries. Where are you from?

Originally Posted by tokyo ranger

I can't remember what the black belt requirements were exactly, but they involve full-contact matches againt several opponents at once.

This is absurd, really. Either the "several opponents" are a bunch of 2nd day white belt and particularly dumb at that, or it's not full-contact. He should simply have a full contact match against a black belt. who told you this?

**tokyo ranger** · Posted On: 3/28/2005 8:38am

Originally Posted by Te No Kage!

Training with full resistance should be done from the get-go, not once you get to black belt level

I never said that only black belts have to do full-contact training.

you just confirmed what I was saying, there's more shootings in L.A. every year than there is in the whole continent of Europe, what the **** are you worried about?

Or: why do people wear seat belts, have fire alarms or insurance? Nothing is likely to happen, so you may as well be without them.

trendy to who? a few people on an internet site? the small base of MMA fans? Fake entertainment wrestling (WWE/WWF whatever) is more popular than Judo and wrestling. Judo and Wrestling are way more poplular than BJJ and probably always will be

So?

Originally Posted by Osiris

Anyways, aren't you done Tokyo? You can defend your art, but not your statements in relations to anything relevant? Lame. Please **** off.

Likewise.

Originally Posted by Kiozz

Is this true? You can't just walk in a pro ring in most european countries. Where are you from?

My krav maga group is under the European Krav Maga Federation. And it's not an official match or anything, it's just a part of the belt test.

This is absurd, really. Either the "several opponents" are a bunch of 2nd day white belt and particularly dumb at that, or it's not full-contact. He should simply have a full contact match against a black belt. who told you this?

My instructor, and I also read a description on a site affiliated with the EKMF. The opponents are black belts in KM and usually in other arts as well, even national champions.

Anyway, if you want to talk about KM make a new thread.

**Kiozz** · Posted On: 3/29/2005 12:21pm

Originally Posted by tokyo ranger

My instructor, and I also read a description on a site affiliated with the EKMF. The opponents are black belts in KM and usually in other arts as well, even national champions.
Anyway, if you want to talk about KM make a new thread.

Don't particularly care about KM, but here we're talking about logics. 1 KM aspiring black belt against 2 or 3 (or more?) KM black belts all at once. You tell me what's the logic behind all this. If it's full contact he's gonna get murdered. If he still lives, then they hold back and the all test is useless.
And those 2 or 3 black belts that get their asses kicked by a lone aspiring black belt, years before, managed to kick the asses of 2 or 3 other blackbelts themselves when they where the lone aspiring black belt. What's that? KM doesn't work in bunches?
What's the link to the EKMF site please?

**tokyo ranger** · Posted On: 3/30/2005 8:40am

Originally Posted by Kiozz

Don't particularly care about KM, but here we're talking about logics. 1 KM aspiring black belt against 2 or 3 (or more?) KM black belts all at once. You tell me what's the logic behind all this. If it's full contact he's gonna get murdered. If he still lives, then they hold back and the all test is useless.
And those 2 or 3 black belts that get their asses kicked by a lone aspiring black belt, years before, managed to kick the asses of 2 or 3 other blackbelts themselves when they where the lone aspiring black belt. What's that? KM doesn't work in bunches?
What's the link to the EKMF site please?

http://www.krav-maga.net/uk/histo.htm

I'm not anywhere near a black belt so I don't know how it precisely works, but that's what I read, more or less. I'm guessing that the fights againts multiple opponents are not meant to be won.

**The Crack Taoist** · Posted On: 3/30/2005 12:13pm

Originally Posted by tokyo ranger

http://www.krav-maga.net/uk/histo.htm

I'm not anywhere near a black belt so I don't know how it precisely works, but that's what I read, more or less. I'm guessing that the fights againts multiple opponents are not meant to be won.

Getting the crap beat out of you for a major belt test is an
excellent thing. The point is not to win... the point is to keep
fighting... fatigue makes cowards of us all.

Fighting multiple people senior to you is not a winnable situation
unless you get in some lucky shots... it's when you get knocked
down and have to get back up and keep fighting.. it's about heart.

How many people do we all know who have excellent technique,
fine athletic ability, could do solo cardio or mad drills for long periods,
but don't have fighting spirit.. the warrior heart?

I'd think that's the point if the KM people are for real at tokyo's club.

**Locu5** · Posted On: 3/30/2005 12:18pm

Great. Can we get back to talking ground fighting on the Groundfighting FAQ now? Feel free to make a KM thread, one and all.

**roly** · Posted On: 4/12/2005 12:47am

i dont see why everyone is bashing tokyo, he does make a good point

its the naturally developed takedown defence that is the grapplers tool against multiple opponents, not the submission skills

against multiple people who want to kick my ass, i'd rather be standing and have a hope of running away, if i can stop a takedown i stand a much higher chance of getting an opportunity to run away

now from a stand and fight (not run away) point of view. from the accounts i have read and heard, its all up to luck and agression, i believe standup arts would prepare you for this better (opinion only, nothing to back it up)

**Meager** · Posted On: 4/14/2005 2:37pm

So you didn't bother to read the FAQ either?

**roly** · Posted On: 4/18/2005 6:36am

i did actually, i'm just saying that the krav maga guy makes a good point

**Lampa** · Posted On: 4/18/2005 9:14am

Originally Posted by roly

i dont see why everyone is bashing tokyo, he does make a good point

its the naturally developed takedown defence that is the grapplers tool against multiple opponents, not the submission skills

against multiple people who want to kick my ass, i'd rather be standing and have a hope of running away, if i can stop a takedown i stand a much higher chance of getting an opportunity to run away

now from a stand and fight (not run away) point of view. from the accounts i have read and heard, its all up to luck and agression, i believe standup arts would prepare you for this better (opinion only, nothing to back it up)

Okay, because you requested to hear about this and it brings the thread back on the topic of groundfighting:

I was in a multiple attacker situation in which I saved my own ass by pulling guard. At the time my primary education was in stand-up and my grappling was shitty even in comparison to my shitty grappling right now. However, I was exposed to grappling so I knew a couple of things.

So, I'm walking down a side street and I see a young man whome I had an altercation with previously and four of his larger friends coming down the other way. My idea of getting out with a friendly "howdy" was kind of dispelled when he pointed at my and said something to his friends. At this point I started walking a little slower and thinking. If I ran I knew they could probably split up and catch me, based on the design of the area which I won't go into detail right now. But the one guy who brought his friends probably wouldn't be expecting to get into the fight, but he'd probably say something right before it, so I'd try for him first for the element of surprise.

Of course, by the time I came up with this great plan of action they were already right near me and the guy who brought his friend was talking, so thinking of a plan sufficiently fucked any means I had of punching my way out.(not that I had any, anyway.) So, I was want for a response to the yelling front man, I think he assumed I was scared stiff, and he went to push me as the other four crowded around. I grabbed him, pulled guard, and used him as a shield from my impending beating.

After a little bit of this, someone who saw this yelled and they dispersed. I let go of my shield who got up and ran after throwing a quick punch to my head on his way up.

If I tried to run I would probably have been caught. If I tried to use stand up they would have overwhelmed me and brought me to the ground, anyway. So, I went to the ground on my terms and was able to hold out until somene intervened on my behalf. I probably would have recieved a number of more severe injuries had I tried any of the multiple opponent tactics Krav and RBSD guys recommend.

Well, Phil would probably have a number of guns he might be able to use in that situation, had he not spent all his ammo on homeless minorities. But as for unarmed tactics, I was satisfied with mine.