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  1. Meager is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/27/2005 2:45pm


     Style: BJJ & MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I apologize for attempting to reason with you. I didn't realize you were a fucking idiot. Carry on.
  2. tokyo ranger is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/27/2005 3:00pm


     Style: Krav Maga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Meager
    I apologize for attempting to reason with you. I didn't realize you were a fucking idiot. Carry on.
    Boo hoo.
  3. Locu5 is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/27/2005 3:09pm

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     Style: Alliance BJJ (Blue)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm really not going to bother. Suffice to say that it's a common attitude around MA communities such as this.
    OK, so you concede that you cannot.

    Was I wrong to think that it's simple common sense that being on the ground exposes you to kicks and stomps from other opponents, and that the ground may contain glass and other hazardous elements? Or is common sense not hip around here?
    You have not addressed where this experience of yours comes from. Do you concede this point as well? You are welcome to share anything you would like. That is why open discussion is important; if you have something to add, do so.

    I'm sorry, but I'm not trained in the analysis of propaganda techniques, and I'm guessing that neither are you.
    (Ignoring the boring redirection and ad hominem) Please do not try to bring what qualifications I may or may not have into the discussion. I am simply asking you to qualify your terms and provide specifics on the generalizations you are making. If you are going to say it is angry propaganda you should be able to show it as such. It appears that by angry propaganda you mean "stuff I disagree with". If I am wrong please show me how by actually defining your terms and backing up your words.

    "Non-grapplers" are full of bullshido for suggesting that you can gouge eyes or bite, even though neither require much training. Yet for some reason, grapplers aren't being full of bullshido by claiming that groundfights always go smoothly, so why worry about hazardous elements on the ground, or another opponent kicking you in the head from above?
    Please show me where the FAQ states ground fights go smoothly? People don't train hard for stuff that is easy, they train for when it doesn't go like drills and 1-steps. Also, please give the reason for the dismissal of the importance of positional dominance.

    Grapplers are so hardcore that you can't do anything to them, kung fu practitioners are weenies and, oddly enough, grapplers gain the upper hand when no rules or boundaries exist.
    You are starting to sound a bit defensive here. This is not a kung fu vs. grappler thread. This is a thread for why grappling training, specifically for the ground, is an important part of a fighter's arsenal.

    Once again, grapplers are so fearsome that "non-grapplers" can't even touch them. I don't see how this is possible, probably because it isn't
    I think it is a fair statement that the trained person tends to beat the non-trained person, in any arena, including groundfighting. You are getting more defensive and seem to be taking this personally. You also, again, discount positional dominance. Is there a reason for this?

    The tactics have never worked against skilled grapplers because one video clip proves it...
    Actually there are a number of video clips that suggest grappling is both effective in its own "ruleset" and when used in other fighting "rulesets". But ignoring that for a moment, he is simply offering evidence, however limited, for the claims he is making. Please feel free to do the same for any of your points. It tends to make your argument more effective and persuasive.

    There's no reason why a kickboxer can't be deceptive, quick and explosive. Maybe he'll kick you in the head before you can do anything? Nah, grapplers can't lose.
    You are correct and I think you should note, no one said he could not. We are simply playing the percentages and forming strategies based off of them. This is also a good place to point out that no one here is advocating grappling as the sum total of what it takes to be a good fighter. There is a reason cross-training is good. Perhaps you could add some systema or aikido to help your krav maga?

    Blah... all I see is biased cult-like nonsense. I agree that grappling is important and no doubt effective, but there's a difference between accepting reality and bending it out of shape.
    Again, please demonstrate the cult-like qualities, with specifics. You are making broad characterizations without any backup.

    Your entire argument seems to be:

    You guys are wrong because I say so and I don't have to show you how. I would rather attack in general because I do not have any specific argument or stance to espouse, nor do I have any evidence or relevant experience [that you have shared]. You are all angry and mean. Furthermore, you are all brainwashed by the cult-tactics and propaganda to think you are invincible.


    Thank you for your contribution. Go train.
  4. tokyo ranger is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/27/2005 3:16pm


     Style: Krav Maga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I had written some replies, but... I give up. No point in fighting a cult.
  5. Te No Kage! is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/27/2005 5:13pm

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     Style: BJJ/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'll try to spell it out for you.......

    Krav Maga is a "reality based self defense" system, what we call "RBSD". Basically these types of schools rely on situational training without free sparring. They don't/won't free spar because "it's too dangerous." They say that sport fighting won't keep you safe in a real fight because in real life there are no rules. The fact of the matter is that the practicioner who practices a non-lethal technique over and over at 100% resistance all of the time has a much higher chance of performing said technique in a real life situation than the practicioner who practices a lethal technique with someone just going along with it without resisting it at all. Jigoro Kano proved it over 100 years ago, and sport fighters are still proving it today.

    The typical RBSD practicioner goes around worrying about being beat up and is always analyzing surroundings and strangers regardless of actual threat. This is caused by low self esteem and paranoia. They see a mean-looking person (like myself) walking down the street and they're poising themselves to go into some rehearsed attack (Count Dante's Dance of Death) that ends in a fatality, when the person didn't pose a threat at all. This is where the guys who watches too much porn analogy comes in.

    If you think BJJ is the only grappling art, you are sadly mistaken. You're leaving out wrestlers, samboists, judoka and others. This is nothing new. Grappling is the oldest of all martial arts. There is a reason for this.
    "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." -A. Lincoln

    Vote your conscience.... Vote Libertarian!
  6. Kungfoolss is offline

    I restore the Balance

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    Posted On:
    3/27/2005 5:25pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: I wear pants

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Te No Kage!

    The typical RBSD practicioner goes around worrying about being beat up and is always analyzing surroundings and strangers regardless of actual threat. This is caused by low self esteem and paranoia.
    :phil:
    Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena
  7. tokyo ranger is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/27/2005 6:34pm


     Style: Krav Maga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Te No Kage!
    I'll try to spell it out for you.......

    Krav Maga is a "reality based self defense" system, what we call "RBSD". Basically these types of schools rely on situational training without free sparring. They don't/won't free spar because "it's too dangerous." They say that sport fighting won't keep you safe in a real fight because in real life there are no rules. The fact of the matter is that the practicioner who practices a non-lethal technique over and over at 100% resistance all of the time has a much higher chance of performing said technique in a real life situation than the practicioner who practices a lethal technique with someone just going along with it without resisting it at all. Jigoro Kano proved it over 100 years ago, and sport fighters are still proving it today.
    We have sparring. Full-contact sparring is even a requirement in the higher belt ranks. Over here (Europe), you have to have a match againts a pro-level kickboxer, for instance. I can't remember what the black belt requirements were exactly, but they involve full-contact matches againt several opponents at once.

    The typical RBSD practicioner goes around worrying about being beat up and is always analyzing surroundings and strangers regardless of actual threat. This is caused by low self esteem and paranoia. They see a mean-looking person (like myself) walking down the street and they're poising themselves to go into some rehearsed attack (Count Dante's Dance of Death) that ends in a fatality, when the person didn't pose a threat at all. This is where the guys who watches too much porn analogy comes in.
    You mean you just walk around with your eyes closed, paying no attention to surroundings? That's brilliant. How about paying attention and avoiding conflicts? I think that's a lot better than wandering around like an idiot and half-deliberately getting into dangerous situations. You can't even detect threats unless you analyze what's going on. Self-esteem has nothing to do with it.

    If you think BJJ is the only grappling art, you are sadly mistaken. You're leaving out wrestlers, samboists, judoka and others. This is nothing new. Grappling is the oldest of all martial arts. There is a reason for this.
    I can't recall ever claiming BJJ to be the only art, it's just that BJJ is the most trendy and seems to be the epicenter of the grappling cult.
  8. Te No Kage! is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/27/2005 7:46pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris
    Grappling is the oldest martial art?
    you didn't know that?

    Greek wrestling, Sumai, etc. ....
    "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." -A. Lincoln

    Vote your conscience.... Vote Libertarian!
  9. Te No Kage! is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/27/2005 7:59pm

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     Style: BJJ/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tokyo ranger
    We have sparring. Full-contact sparring is even a requirement in the higher belt ranks. Over here (Europe), you have to have a match againts a pro-level kickboxer, for instance. I can't remember what the black belt requirements were exactly, but they involve full-contact matches againt several opponents at once.
    Training with full resistance should be done from the get-go, not once you get to black belt level

    Quote Originally Posted by tokyo ranger
    You mean you just walk around with your eyes closed, paying no attention to surroundings? That's brilliant. How about paying attention and avoiding conflicts? I think that's a lot better than wandering around like an idiot and half-deliberately getting into dangerous situations. You can't even detect threats unless you analyze what's going on. Self-esteem has nothing to do with it.
    you just confirmed what I was saying, there's more shootings in L.A. every year than there is in the whole continent of Europe, what the **** are you worried about?

    Quote Originally Posted by tokyo ranger
    I can't recall ever claiming BJJ to be the only art, it's just that BJJ is the most trendy and seems to be the epicenter of the grappling cult.
    trendy to who? a few people on an internet site? the small base of MMA fans? Fake entertainment wrestling (WWE/WWF whatever) is more popular than Judo and wrestling. Judo and Wrestling are way more poplular than BJJ and probably always will be
    "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." -A. Lincoln

    Vote your conscience.... Vote Libertarian!
  10. charmin is offline
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    Government overthrows you!

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    Posted On:
    3/27/2005 9:15pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Te No Kage!
    you didn't know that?

    Greek wrestling, Sumai, etc. ....
    You're forgetting ramming spears through people, dinosaur style.

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