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  1. PoleFighter is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/27/2005 6:19am


     Style: Sandbagged BJJ white belt

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tokyo ranger
    I get the impression that this isn't really a FAQ, but more of an elaborate fantasy designed to explain why grappling is The Ultimate Unstoppable Art (makes sense, since BJJ is quite fashionable at the moment) and how sportsfighting is actually the same as street fighting (based on what I've read here, most people don't even seem to believe that you can actually get attacked outside the dojo) and how striking is ultimately useless. The "FAQ" also seems to operate on the proposition that the situation (whatever it is) will be grappler vs. striker. For some reason.
    The point of the FAQ is to explain why ground grappling is essential in self defence, as most people do not understand its importance. It's not about grappling vs striking. That debate is pointless on a forum where the general opinion is that one needs to be able to fight at all ranges in order to be able to defend oneself.
    I pointed at him [the panhandler], bringing my rear hand up in a subtle approximation of the double Wu Sau guard that is the default hand position in Wing Chun Kung Fu.

    "Step away," I hissed.
    -Phil Elmore
  2. Locu5 is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/27/2005 6:47am

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     Style: Alliance BJJ (Blue)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    no. you got it all wrong. he has t3h 4nt1-gr0und, which places the fashionalble groundwork arts in their appropriate place of irrelavence. these techniques are derived from years of dangling from Russian Spec-Ops scrodums.

    besides, osiris's bjj pwns j00.
  3. Te No Kage! is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/27/2005 9:09am

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     Style: BJJ/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tokyo ranger
    I get the impression that this isn't really a FAQ, but more of an elaborate fantasy designed to explain why grappling is The Ultimate Unstoppable Art (makes sense, since BJJ is quite fashionable at the moment) and how sportsfighting is actually the same as street fighting (based on what I've read here, most people don't even seem to believe that you can actually get attacked outside the dojo) and how striking is ultimately useless. The "FAQ" also seems to operate on the proposition that the situation (whatever it is) will be grappler vs. striker. For some reason.
    Do you really think practicing martial arts plays a big role in keeping yourself from being attacked? How about common sense? Too much RBSD makes Jack a dull boy.

    It's kind of like a dude that watches way too much porn and then assumes that every woman he meets wants to get it on right then, right there.

    Your view on what is actually happening in your daily life is inaccuate, and it's only exascerbated by your low self esteem and paranoia. That is unless you're taking Krav Maga and live in Jerusalem, then you might have an excuse.
    "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." -A. Lincoln

    Vote your conscience.... Vote Libertarian!
  4. tokyo ranger is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/27/2005 12:34pm


     Style: Krav Maga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Te No Kage!
    Do you really think practicing martial arts plays a big role in keeping yourself from being attacked? How about common sense? Too much RBSD makes Jack a dull boy.
    I've never said a word about practising martial arts to keep yourself safe from attacks, and I've never claimed that practising a MA keeps anyone from getting attacked. I know about the concept of avoidance, too. It's not a secret, you know. But since I never mentioned the entire subject, why are you bringing it up? And why does everyone here keep mentioning RBSD? How's it related to anything of what I've written about? As far as I've been able to understand the prevailing attitude here, self-defense based on reality is Bad. The logical extension to this seems to be that fighting based on fantasy is Good.

    It's kind of like a dude that watches way too much porn and then assumes that every woman he meets wants to get it on right then, right there.
    I don't see how that is related to anything, or what it even means.

    Your view on what is actually happening in your daily life is inaccuate, and it's only exascerbated by your low self esteem and paranoia. That is unless you're taking Krav Maga and live in Jerusalem, then you might have an excuse.
    When have I said a word about my daily life, where have I said or indicated that I have low self-esteem or that I'm paranoid? I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, so start making some sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by PoleFighter
    The point of the FAQ is to explain why ground grappling is essential in self defence, as most people do not understand its importance. It's not about grappling vs striking. That debate is pointless on a forum where the general opinion is that one needs to be able to fight at all ranges in order to be able to defend oneself.
    I agree that groundfighting is an important skill, but this FAQ sounds more like angry, misguided propaganda than a FAQ.

    Quote Originally Posted by locu5
    no. you got it all wrong. he has t3h 4nt1-gr0und, which places the fashionalble groundwork arts in their appropriate place of irrelavence. these techniques are derived from years of dangling from Russian Spec-Ops scrodums.
    I've never claimed that I'm anti-ground, whatever that means. But the fact is that BJJ is so fashionable these days, that it's no different from the kind of bullshido cult that everyone keeps bashing over here. It's gone way overboard.
  5. Locu5 is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/27/2005 12:48pm

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     Style: Alliance BJJ (Blue)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So regardless of its effectiveness, since it is popular it must be bullshido like levitation, chi balls, and krav maga??

    OK, since we are in the ground fighting FAQ, please submit your position on ground work since your expereince can only help us. Also, if you would, please identify the specific members of the BJJ nut-hug club that contribute to this site, preferably with statements that qualify them as such.

    EDIT: Also, please point out the angry parts of the FAQ.
    Last edited by Locu5; 3/27/2005 12:52pm at .
  6. tokyo ranger is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/27/2005 1:34pm


     Style: Krav Maga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by locu5
    So regardless of its effectiveness, since it is popular it must be bullshido like levitation, chi balls, and krav maga??
    It's bullshido in the sense that far too many people consider it to be The Ultimate Deadly Ninja Art, which of course means that BJJ practitioners are super commandos who can kill anyone in two seconds flat. As for Krav Maga, I don't know why its classified as bullshido over here. Probably just a problem in the US. There's no BS about it in here.

    OK, since we are in the ground fighting FAQ, please submit your position on ground work since your expereince can only help us.
    My position? Ground work is important, but only when you're forced into it. Going to the ground in a real fight is suicide.

    Also, if you would, please identify the specific members of the BJJ nut-hug club that contribute to this site, preferably with statements that qualify them as such.
    I don't know of any specific members, except maybe Kungfoolss. But I gather that he's just a troll, I'm not sure. As far as I can see, it's a common attitude over here.

    EDIT: Also, please point out the angry parts of the FAQ.
    Ok, not necessarily angry, but I think there's a general sense of hostility and contempt towards anything not related to grappling. Simply put: don't write propaganda, write a FAQ instead.
  7. PoleFighter is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/27/2005 1:54pm


     Style: Sandbagged BJJ white belt

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Could you quote something from the FAQ that you don't like in order to help improve it?
    I pointed at him [the panhandler], bringing my rear hand up in a subtle approximation of the double Wu Sau guard that is the default hand position in Wing Chun Kung Fu.

    "Step away," I hissed.
    -Phil Elmore
  8. Locu5 is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/27/2005 2:03pm

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     Style: Alliance BJJ (Blue)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tokyo ranger
    It's bullshido in the sense that far too many people consider it to be The Ultimate Deadly Ninja Art, which of course means that BJJ practitioners are super commandos who can kill anyone in two seconds flat.
    Please post a source, preferably a post or two with established posters.

    As for Krav Maga, I don't know why its classified as bullshido over here. Probably just a problem in the US. There's no BS about it in here.

    My position? Ground work is important, but only when you're forced into it. Going to the ground in a real fight is suicide.
    Can you please post your specific first-hand experiences where a fight that has gone to the ground has gone poorly for a trained player? Is this based on your krav maga training? If so is it perhaps due to the lack of efficacy in your group's ground work? If not, then you are relying on other sources, please share them.

    I don't know of any specific members, except maybe Kungfoolss. But I gather that he's just a troll, I'm not sure. As far as I can see, it's a common attitude over here.
    So KFS is a BJJ nut-hugger troll? You are close.

    Ok, not necessarily angry, but I think there's a general sense of hostility and contempt towards anything not related to grappling. Simply put: don't write propaganda, write a FAQ instead.
    OK, provide a specific example from the FAQ itself that shows hostility or contempt. Please also demonstrate the specific propaganda techniques used to divert attention and sway the masses.
  9. Meager is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/27/2005 2:07pm


     Style: BJJ & MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tokyo ranger
    It's bullshido in the sense that far too many people consider it to be The Ultimate Deadly Ninja Art, which of course means that BJJ practitioners are super commandos who can kill anyone in two seconds flat.
    You spend too much time on the internet. In real life, when people fnid out I do martial arts (it's not something I advertise) and ask me what kind, I generally get a blank look when I tell them Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu.
    My position? Ground work is important, but only when you're forced into it. Going to the ground in a real fight is suicide.
    Your position is that you didn't bother to read the FAQ before you had a hissy fit about it?
    Quote Originally Posted by The FAQ you obviously didn't read
    Q: Doesn't the presence of broken glass, needles, lava, sharks, etc. on the ground make groundfighting a bad idea even if you're good at it?

    A: Striking advocates are quick to point out that you would never want to roll around on the ground where you would get scraped up by the asphalt or broken glass. This is indeed the truth and it is why a person should train in groundfighting.

    A groundfighter is going to control the takedown and be on TOP thus using the harsh environment against his attacker. Even if our groundfighter is in a disadvantageous position, he will quickly improve position, whereas the helpless striker would just flail about and remove the skin from his own back.

    B: A fight is an unpredictable event and going to the ground is a possibility. You may not have the luxery of keeping the fight standing especially if you do not train in proper takedown defenses. You may also trip, or slip on something, or...the list goes on and on.

    Learning groundfighting will give you the ability to continue to defend yourself as well as teach you proper, safe ways to stand back up.
    Read carefully, and pay special attention to the part I bolded.
    I don't know of any specific members, except maybe Kungfoolss. But I gather that he's just a troll, I'm not sure. As far as I can see, it's a common attitude over here.
    It's funny how you seem to think everyone that disagrees with you does BJJ.
    Last edited by Meager; 3/27/2005 2:14pm at .
  10. tokyo ranger is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/27/2005 2:40pm


     Style: Krav Maga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PoleFighter
    Could you quote something from the FAQ that you don't like in order to help improve it?
    I don't really think it matters, since the objective of the FAQ is not shared by me.

    Quote Originally Posted by locu5
    Please post a source, preferably a post or two with established posters.
    I'm really not going to bother. Suffice to say that it's a common attitude around MA communities such as this.

    Can you please post your specific first-hand experiences where a fight that has gone to the ground has gone poorly for a trained player? Is this based on your krav maga training? If so is it perhaps due to the lack of efficacy in your group's ground work? If not, then you are relying on other sources, please share them.
    Was I wrong to think that it's simple common sense that being on the ground exposes you to kicks and stomps from other opponents, and that the ground may contain glass and other hazardous elements? Or is common sense not hip around here?

    OK, provide a specific example from the FAQ itself that shows hostility or contempt. Please also demonstrate the specific propaganda techniques used to divert attention and sway the masses.
    I'm sorry, but I'm not trained in the analysis of propaganda techniques, and I'm guessing that neither are you.

    The non-grappler will claim to resort to such infallible techniques as eyegouging, biting and / or genital crushing techniques. The reasons why this is bullshido are as follows:
    "Non-grapplers" are full of bullshido for suggesting that you can gouge eyes or bite, even though neither require much training. Yet for some reason, grapplers aren't being full of bullshido by claiming that groundfights always go smoothly, so why worry about hazardous elements on the ground, or another opponent kicking you in the head from above?

    3. What you can do to them, they can do to you. In other words. if a grappler can beat you under a specific ruleset, chances are that when those rules are lifted, they can beat you even worse. There is no unwritten law in life that states only kung fu weenies can poke someone in the eye or squeeze some testicles.
    Grapplers are so hardcore that you can't do anything to them, kung fu practitioners are weenies and, oddly enough, grapplers gain the upper hand when no rules or boundaries exist.

    4. Whatever move you claim to be able to pull out of the bag during 'anti-grappling', chances are a grappler can not only do the same move to you, but can use their skill and experience of fighting in that range to put themselves in a much better position than you to apply the move, and also have the knowledge and experience to defend against it far better than a non-grappler.
    For instance, from under mount, trying to gouge your opponent's eyes will give your opponent a great opportunity to armbar you. Whereas the person on top mount can gouge with impunity.

    Once again, grapplers are so fearsome that "non-grapplers" can't even touch them. I don't see how this is possible, probably because it isn't.

    5: So far these tactics have never worked on a skilled grappler. For instance, in the john marsh vs. kung fu guy video on bullshido.net, the kung fu guy trys to gouge Marsh's eyes from underneath side control. Marsh uses the raised arm as an opportunity to apply a keylock and snaps the kung fu guy's shoulder.
    The tactics have never worked againts skilled grapplers because one video clip proves it...

    Q: But don't grapplers have to reach me first?

    A: Yes they do. However, the deceptive, quick, and expolosive nature of the shot (takedown) makes this relatively easy allowing you only one solid attack with which you must KO your opponent to avoid grappling. Should you fail, you'll likely end up on the ground or at least entangled witn your opponent.

    There's no reason why a kickboxer can't be deceptive, quick and explosive. Maybe he'll kick you in the head before you can do anything? Nah, grapplers can't lose.

    Blah... all I see is biased cult-like nonsense. I agree that grappling is important and no doubt effective, but there's a difference between accepting reality and bending it out of shape.

    Quote Originally Posted by Meager
    You spend too much time on the internet. In real life, when people fnid out I do martial arts (it's not something I advertise) and ask me what kind, I generally get a blank look when I tell them Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu.
    I was talking about the MA communities on the net, not "real life."

    Your position is that you didn't bother to read the FAQ before you had a hissy fit about it?

    Read carefully, and pay special attention to the part I bolded.
    Yes, it says that, but it also insists that a grappler will "control the takedown" so all that glass doesn't really make a difference. That's just an optimistic fantasy. It also has the general tone of advocating groundfighting too much, which to me seems to suggest that groundfighting should always be done.

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