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  1. Beatdown Richie is offline
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    game dog

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    Posted On:
    11/01/2004 1:35pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The complexity of a fighting system should reflect the complexity of the range that it deals with. Inevitably, striking will then turn out simpler than ground grappling.

    Even a complex system should have a hierarchy of techniques - simple, reliable bread-and butter techniques that get a beginner going quickly, and more complex techniques that you can add on when everyone counters your standard stuff. Case in point: judo - a small number of elementary, high-percentage techniques, hundreds of variations and whacko throws to learn if you feel like it. Learn o-goshi first, then harai goshi, then hane goshi, then... althogh o-goshi will work fine for most people in most fight situations.
    There are no wrong threats, only wrong answers. (Strategy game truism)
  2. Bang! is offline
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    11/01/2004 1:42pm

    supporting memberBullshido Newbie
     Style: Wu Style TCC + BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Okay, so any good system should be relatively robust, starting with simple stuff that [almost] anyone can get and then moving toward 31 flavours of complexity with particular variations.

    No question there. And we haven't really discussed principles, but that's been an ugly can of worms in past. So . . .

    Lemme ask you this: If you were introduced to a genuine prodigy--someone who could learn and perform anything at all with a high degree of proficiency and whose learning curve was off the charts--then what would it be?

    And more to the point, would you teach them your style? If not, why?
  3. Thaiboxerken is offline
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    Genius

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    Posted On:
    11/01/2004 1:59pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kru-MuayThai,GJJ-Blue

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Repulsive Monkey

    And more to the point, would you teach them your style? If not, why?
    Yes, because it works.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire.
  4. Bang! is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/01/2004 2:06pm

    supporting memberBullshido Newbie
     Style: Wu Style TCC + BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris
    You really don't need more than 10 technqus for fighting purposes.

    Punch, reverse punch, roundhouse, axe kick, push kick, double leg, single leg, scissor sweep from guard, sprawl, crucifix. I personally could get by on the street with just that. Only included the crucifix because it's so fucking pimp. Syracuse might be useful too.

    Everything else is for style vs style. Generally yours.
    Are you talking about universal techniques or what works for you?
  5. Bang! is offline
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    11/01/2004 2:09pm

    supporting memberBullshido Newbie
     Style: Wu Style TCC + BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Thaiboxerken
    Yes, because it works.
    MT works. No argument there. However, you would also see this "prodigal son's" abilities peak after a relatively short time--maybe six months. Are you sure that there aren't any other styles that would represent a longer--and ultimately higher--process of skill development?
  6. Ronin is offline

    Merry Christmas Bitch

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    Posted On:
    11/01/2004 2:09pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Canadian Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Osiris is correct, the reason systems such as Muay Thai, Boxing, Kyokushin, etc, are so effective is, not ONLY od they train HARD and with CONTACT, they keep things simple.
    Not too many tectniques and concentrate on the "high perecentage" techniques.
  7. Thaiboxerken is offline
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    Genius

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    Posted On:
    11/01/2004 2:12pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kru-MuayThai,GJJ-Blue

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Repulsive Monkey
    MT works. No argument there. However, you would also see this "prodigal son's" abilities peak after a relatively short time--maybe six months. Are you sure that there aren't any other styles that would represent a longer--and ultimately higher--process of skill development?
    No, the skill would get better as long as he keeps training.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire.
  8. PizDoff is offline

    .

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    Toronto
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    Posted On:
    11/01/2004 2:27pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Axe kick? WTF? You forgot basic knee and elbow strikes there.



    Quote Originally Posted by Repulsive Monkey
    What, in your opinion, is he maximum degree of complexity that you think can exist in a martial system before it becomes too difficult for the average person to utilize? This question applies to concepts and principles as much as it does the number and variety of techniques.
    See, the problem is defining what an average practitioner is...but does that matter?
    Training the complexity properly can overcome whatever that average practitioner had or lacked in the first place. Multiple repetitions and drilling will give the practitioner ability to understand and integrate more complex movements into their own repetoire.

    Anecdotal example to ponder. (Styles listed just for reference and not to bash.) I had 'lots' of complex in close movements that we drilled in WC, then recently did a MT/Karate class where the movement was an outside brushing away block with an arm to counter a punch, block the other punch, then step in to double palm heel the body and face. I'd give that medium complexity. :) The MT guy I was working with said something along the lines of 'this is hard isn't it?' I got confused and gave a negative...

    Let's see how many nutriders defend MT here...

    My point? You should train the complex, of course with applicable movements and techniques, so the simple will be so much easier. One analogy I know is: It is so much easier to kick the leg when you can kick the head.



    Edit: That top bit was for Os, didn't see all these responses between him and mine while I was replying...
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  9. Te No Kage! is offline
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    Chemist

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    Posted On:
    11/01/2004 2:29pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I like the complexity -- it keeps me coming back
    "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." -A. Lincoln

    Vote your conscience.... Vote Libertarian!
  10. Ronin is offline

    Merry Christmas Bitch

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    Posted On:
    11/01/2004 2:32pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Canadian Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The more complex, the less the chance of it being applied sucessesfully.
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