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  1. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2004 9:03pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For technique go with private lessons

    For practice group classes.
  2. tai-gip is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2004 9:20pm


     Style: Mung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It depends on how you learn. Some people like to be able to see they can do it themselves by group training (generaly you wont be able to do it to your instructor) Some take in more information when they train one on one.. In reality it is up to you to improve yourself, no matter how good the instruction, if you dont take it in understand it and make it yourown it wont make a differance. It does seem to make people feel more confidant though, wich makes them believe more in their abbilities, wich actualy makes you improve. Buggered if i know i liked both
  3. PeedeeShaolin is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/02/2004 9:31pm

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     Style: BJJ, Karate,

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've said this so many times that I must sound like a broken record.

    The main thing your going to get with private lessons is a big bill.

    Having taught and taken privates for many years, I'm going to stand by my original call and say that private lessons are only worthwhile if you're a complete noob and are having a brutal time understanding the techniques you're currently learning.

    For some strange reason people think that understanding martial arts and techniques are going to get you somewhere.

    It won't. Not ever.

    I fully understand how to make a sandwich but if I never get off my as and make that sandwich I'm going to stay hungry.

    When training in martial arts the job of your instructor is to introduce you to techniques and then have you work those techniques in a way that will help you develop all the attributes that make those techniqes effective.

    I can show anyone here how to throw a right cross in less than 2 minutes and if you have any sort of athletic ability whatsoever you'll grasp the mechanics, such as pivoting your hips, not dropping your other hand, not closing your eyes when your fist makes contact etc etc.

    Hell, it would probably take the same amount of time to undertand a rolling kneebar/victors throw.

    But understanding it doesn't really get you anything.

    After you understand how to throw a punch you then have to PRACTICE it. There are so many variables that need to be learned like distance, accuracy, timing, focus and reflexes.

    Then to add to that list you have things like power and speed which need to be worked on in a different context.

    You can work on these things in a private lesson, and have a man hold the pads for you for $50/hour, or you can practice the exact same techniques with a member of your class who can remind you to "keep your hands up" and "don't close your eyes".

    The only thing thats going to improve your skill is repetition and study.

    I could care less if you took 10,000 privates, if you understand the mechanics of the technique the only thing thats going to improve those techniques is alot of practice time.

    Let me sum it up by asking you to avoid privates unless you:

    A) Want to feel important

    B) Are truly having a problem understanding the techniques your instructor is having you work, or

    C) You enjoy telling people you spent $5,000 for something that you could have learned for $100.


    Privates aren't a shortcut to getting better. They dont do anything except introduce you to new techniques, which you'll still have to spend many hours practicing if you really want to master them.

    Lets take an armbar.....this is not a very complex thing to understand.

    Everyone here respects Omega so if I ask him, in all seriousness, what has more variables an armbar or driving a car what do you think he'll say?

    I'll bet you he'll go for the driving the car choice because an armbar just isn't very difficult to understand.

    However...you can understand it like CaptShady understands gay porno but that STILL doesn't mean you can pull the thing off. In order to become confident with that technique and have the ability to execute it against a resisting opponent requires an understanding that only comes from practice practice practice against real people where you'll be allowed to develop all the variables I spoke of earlier(speed, timing etc) at your own pace and within the limits of your own physicality.

    Take some privates if you need help understanding how to execute the techniques your being taught but if you simply want to get better at them the only thing you need is time and practice.

    Your wallet will thank you.
    "All warfare is based on deception." -Sun Tzu, ca. 400BC


    Reverse punch Kiaii!!!
  4. PeedeeShaolin is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/02/2004 9:56pm

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     Style: BJJ, Karate,

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    And just to make a long story longer, group classes offer several advantages that can't really be expected in a private format.


    Group classes offer you a wide variety of partners and body types to work with.

    They offer you the chance to make friends with your classmates and that helps to make you look forward to coming to class.

    They offer you a wider range of skill levels to practice with.

    They offer YOU the chance to work with people holding pads etc. This is great for a number of reasons. For example; when its your turn to hold the pads for your partner in thai drills its your responsibility to help coach them when you see them doing something incorrect.

    I promise that you'll be doing SOMETHING wrong EVERY SINGLE CLASS.

    By watching your partners and seeing them make normal mistakes you're seeing for yourself the most common things that people need to work on. Its different for everyone but ask any instructor and they'll tell you that people make the SAME MISTAKES most fo the time.

    If you see your partner closing his eyes when he covers up to block a strike chances are that you just might do the same thing from time to time.

    Working with people, and seeing their shortcomigs first hand, can help remind us what we might need to be aware of ourselves when practicing.

    One last point:

    In privates its very easy to pick out things that a person might be doing wrong and then get them to believe that because you pointed out the flaws in their technique you're somehow helping them.

    This is completely false.

    I can point out flaws in EVERYONE. I cant tell you how many times I've watched Mike Tyson box and have seen more mistakes than I could count. The same in MMA, we all know when someone messes up and doesn't do the correct thing. I could spend a half hour showing you how many mistakes Ken Shamrock makes when he strikes. Just watch his thai pad work pre-fight with Ortiz.

    But when someone points out all of your flaws they aren't coaching you, they're CRITICIZING you.

    Big difference.

    If I work with a noobie and he gets the concept of an armbar and then I say "Ok but don't forget to squeeze your knees, grab his arm with BOTH hands, keep your feet TIGHT to him, try and get his arm on a 45 degree angle for more pressure...."

    A noob just isn't going to remember it. He's going to be confused.

    Whats more, even if he DID remember it.....so what? He can't possibly APPLY those things without more practice against real people. He needs time and study for this to take place, not expensive lessons where a guy is going to basically tell you the exact same thing he would have in a group class anyway.

    Theres an old saying "The quickest way to teach someone nothing is to show them everything".
    "All warfare is based on deception." -Sun Tzu, ca. 400BC


    Reverse punch Kiaii!!!
  5. PeedeeShaolin is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/02/2004 10:12pm

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     Style: BJJ, Karate,

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I used to give privates for free. You have no idea how many fights I had because fo that. I was supposed to CHARGE a bullshit amount of money.

    Isn't it common sense that if a person is paying me to teach them something, and they do not learn it, my responsibility as an instructor has not been met and I still have an obligation to that student?

    All too often an honest description of private lessons goes something like:

    "I know your paying me to teach you but if you pay me MORE I'll teach you BETTER...."

    Bullshit.
    "All warfare is based on deception." -Sun Tzu, ca. 400BC


    Reverse punch Kiaii!!!
  6. tai-gip is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2004 10:16pm


     Style: Mung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    But understanding it doesn't really get you anything.

    After you understand how to throw a punch you then have to PRACTICE it. There are so many variables that need to be learned like distance, accuracy, timing, focus and reflexes.

    Then to add to that list you have things like power and speed which need to be worked on in a different context.

    Wouldnt all of the above constitute an understanding. You need to know why your doing it, where its taking you, how it will affect you and the other person, and how to do it properly. Every miniscule movement needs to be understood, because you may need to change it at any moment and noing exactly where you are is the best way to be able to change it.

    Just like the way you look differently at the term "understanding" so different people look differently at ma and the way they learn.
  7. PeedeeShaolin is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/02/2004 10:21pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Karate,

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Every miniscule movement needs to be understood, because you may need to change it at any moment and noing exactly where you are is the best way to be able to change it.
    This is false.

    Its the same thing they try and teach you at McDojos when they have you master that kata within INCHES of perfection.

    Pretty much anything in martial arts isn't rocket science. Its pretty basic stuff that needs to be worked over and over to understand.

    The mechanics of a technique are the easiest thing about it. Its all the hard work that makes the technique so effective.
    "All warfare is based on deception." -Sun Tzu, ca. 400BC


    Reverse punch Kiaii!!!
  8. tai-gip is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2004 10:40pm


     Style: Mung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PeedeeShaolin
    This is false.

    Its the same thing they try and teach you at McDojos when they have you master that kata within INCHES of perfection.

    Pretty much anything in martial arts isn't rocket science. Its pretty basic stuff that needs to be worked over and over to understand.

    The mechanics of a technique are the easiest thing about it. Its all the hard work that makes the technique so effective.
    What exactly if false ?

    So it dosnt take hard work to understand a technique as much as you can ?
    The technique being used correctly is what makes it effective wich cant be done without understanding.

    Perhaps we are just not understanding one another we arnt talking about how to understand just the importance of understanding itself. I personaly found i started learning best when i started teaching because i wanted to make sure i could explain and show the technique correctly and be able to correct every mistake the student made, posture, footwork, balance, positioning, breathing, attitude, intent, purpose, technique specific movement etc To me these are all just a part of understanding.
  9. PeedeeShaolin is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/02/2004 10:45pm

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     Style: BJJ, Karate,

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Whats false is the statement you made that I quoted. I'll quote it again for you:

    Every miniscule movement needs to be understood, because you may need to change it at any moment and noing exactly where you are is the best way to be able to change it.
    Thinking that somehow every miniscule detail needs to be understood is crazy.

    If you want to take privates go right ahead my brother!

    My advice would be to wad up your money, burn it, then drive to your group class and learn the exact same things you would have learned in the private.
    "All warfare is based on deception." -Sun Tzu, ca. 400BC


    Reverse punch Kiaii!!!
  10. tai-gip is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2004 10:57pm


     Style: Mung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PeedeeShaolin
    Whats false is the statement you made that I quoted. I'll quote it again for you:



    Thinking that somehow every miniscule detail needs to be understood is crazy.

    If you want to take privates go right ahead my brother!

    My advice would be to wad up your money, burn it, then drive to your group class and learn the exact same things you would have learned in the private.
    peedee you may notice i said i dont know wich is best and that i like both.

    Why do you say its false "Every miniscule movement needs to be understood, because you may need to change it at any moment and noing exactly where you are is the best way to be able to change it."

    Say someone your fighting someone who does say choy lee fut.. They are throwing what seems to be a commited round punch, but as you move into block position they loop it over the block to come down back of fist or knuckles first on the side of your neck.
    Do you feel knowing exactly where you are positioned in every details would give you the best oppurtunity of repositioning your already extended block into the appropriate position or not. Not just to block as a lucky excape but to insure to maintian optimum positioning for any follow ups from either yourself or the other. ??
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