224949 Bullies, 3676 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 1 to 10 of 36
Page 1 of 4 1 234 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Mayhem is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Western Australia
    Posts
    301

    Posted On:
    10/30/2004 11:04am


     Style: Moo Thai & Crappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Are Belts Bullshido?

    From doing a little reading I am under the impression that the 'belt system' in many MA came along only fairly recently. Has the introduction of belts come about due to a much greater student:teacher ratio and/or as a means of other students identifying who is more senior?

    I did MT for several years - no belts required. You fight/spar the other guy and the best man on the night wins.

    I did KF for 6 months - no sparring allowed, everyone had a belt, large classes I knew about 10 out of the 40-50 people there on any given night. I ran screaming and they wanted me to pay out the remaining 6 months on the contract.

    I am now doing KF at another place (8 months now) - sparring allowed, no belt required. I know every student at the school (total of about 12-15). Usually about 6-8 students on any given night.

    If every student knows each other (and at what level they are at) is there any need for a belt?
  2. The_Ghost is offline
    The_Ghost's Avatar

    U.S. Army

    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Ft. Benning, GA
    Posts
    1,945

    Posted On:
    10/30/2004 11:07am

    supporting member
     Style: Kickboxing/Shooto

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Belts are there for two reasons:

    1) To give the person practicing a sense of accomplishment and to help them continue to work on (because let's be honest, people are lazy).

    2) To suck the money from your hard working body.

    It might be both, it might be one. Either way the belt may not be bullshido, its the reason behind it that matters.
    "did Phrost just call me a 'bitch'?"-Omega

    "The collective IQ of bullshido was reduced with the departure of Wastrel. It further dropped due to the retention of (Serious Harm)."
    - The all knowing Dochter

    "but like, it's possible to develop such a level of reflex that you can literally detect someones movements through sensitivity, and block without even thinking"-Apostol

    That's the amazing thing about Ninjas, for sneeky cocksuckers, they are all over the place, like dog **** on your shoe.-Ronin69
  3. Aesopian is offline

    Light Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    4,501

    Posted On:
    10/30/2004 11:08am

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Aesopian.com 

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Belts aren't bullshido in themselves. An emphasis on belt testing, belt testing fees, status symbolism, the awarding of belts to unqualified students, and making kids go "Look ma, I'm a black belt!" is bullshido.
  4. Deadpan Scientist is offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    8,293

    Posted On:
    10/30/2004 12:18pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Aesopian
    Belts aren't bullshido in themselves. An emphasis on belt testing, belt testing fees, status symbolism, the awarding of belts to unqualified students, and making kids go "Look ma, I'm a black belt!" is bullshido.
    Bullshido is teaching false techniques (your kick can sever a torso)

    Mcdojo is the emphasis on money


    And belts are not either of them
  5. Apostol is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    703

    Posted On:
    10/30/2004 12:27pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Belts are useful, when you go to other schools and work with other people then they will put you with someone of a similar rank/experience.
  6. Aesopian is offline

    Light Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    4,501

    Posted On:
    10/30/2004 12:38pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Aesopian.com 

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have been brandeissansoowned. :tard:
  7. Omega Supreme is offline

    Administrator

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    West Coast
    Posts
    22,986

    Posted On:
    10/30/2004 12:48pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wow, I was wondering when they were going to bring up this subject again. No, belts are neither bullshido or Mcdojo as Brandei said. What's bullshido or Mcdojo about it is how some school puts people up on a mantle just because of their rank, charge you up the yin yang for them and/or give you belts just because you pay for them and you've been there long enough.
  8. sherekahn is offline

    Lightweight

    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    San Antonio,TX
    Posts
    129

    Posted On:
    10/30/2004 1:33pm

    supporting member
     Style: goju-ryu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I am not too sure on the exact time/place of the introduction of the belt system, I was pretty sure it was Kano who first brought the grades into place and Funakoshi who brought the system into karate...but I could be wrong.

    The only main thing I see for a belt system is that for many people, they need to have some measure or mark/reward of their progression in order to continue on practicing anything. A lot of times expertise/skill and other direct benefits either do not seem to increase noticeably enough for people or plateau out for sporadic periods, a belt system pretty much is a direct physical representation of progress (in an ideal world).

    Another thing I can see is it does help give you a way to measure the quality of a school's instruction by having a visual identifier to the supposed skill of a practicioner. You can see what new people, intermediate, and advanced people have to offer in a school based on the belts.

    As for the McDojo/Bullshido/Belt Factory abuses of the belt system, obviously like most other things, anyone can ruin something that is a good idea when not abused...and a lot of times the true intent of a belt system is hard for instructors who want to run a school as a business to stick to. I was reading over a book of Peter Urban's not too long ago where he specifically discussed a student whom it took 7 years to promote as a brown belt. Actually here is the excerpt:

    "It took me seven years of hard work to get 'Jerome', a bubonicly {sp} lazy student to the level of brown belt. In reality, to this day, I don't know why I accept him as a student at my dojo. He used poor health, asthma, perpetual poverty, and a 'Woe is me!' story as his inane self-defense mechanism. I deliberately refused to promote him many times, and he was left out of the dojo's social events until he had graduated from high school. I convinced him that Shakespeare knew one thing just like the rest of us, i.e., the twenty-six letters of the alphabet. The rest was up to Shakespeare himself. I succeeded with Jerome because there is a lot to be said for the tough-love therapy which is popular today"

    Peter Urban may have been a bit looney at times, and granted the peak time he was teaching was a bit different (economics/viability of running an MA school), but if most schools shared his viewpoints on the belt system and specifically had no qualms about denying promotion of a student, then there would be a lot less question about the bullshido-ness/validity of a belt system.
    Last edited by sherekahn; 10/30/2004 1:38pm at .
  9. Thaiboxerken is offline
    Thaiboxerken's Avatar

    Genius

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    6,349

    Posted On:
    10/30/2004 1:37pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kru-MuayThai,GJJ-Blue

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Belts don't mean **** outside of the places that you train at. They are not necessarily bullshido though, good instructors can use a belt system to motivate students to reach their goals.

    However, I am under the impression that for 80% of the people that hold them, belts are bullshit. Black belts don't scare me, especially when the person tries to intimidate with the black belt. (Unless they are black belts in BJJ)
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire.
  10. Omega Supreme is offline

    Administrator

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    West Coast
    Posts
    22,986

    Posted On:
    10/30/2004 2:12pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Thaiboxerken
    Belts don't mean **** outside of the places that you train at. They are not necessarily bullshido though, good instructors can use a belt system to motivate students to reach their goals.

    However, I am under the impression that for 80% of the people that hold them, belts are bullshit. Black belts don't scare me, especially when the person tries to intimidate with the black belt. (Unless they are black belts in BJJ)

    *whip whtack!!!

    scared now aren't you!!!

    :adora:

    bow down to the whipping black belt!!


    *whtack snap!!!!!

    :5bullwhip
Page 1 of 4 1 234 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.