Competition and the Martial arts

**Matt W.** · Posted On: 10/29/2004 10:56am

That it prepares you for a "real fight" does not disqualify it from being a sport art. In fact, I believe sport arts do the best job of preparing one for a "real fight" because in sport arts you actually fight!

And what are you missing? Well, again, I'm not Mr. Competition or anything. I've only competed once so far. But it was very different. First, there is the mentalality. You get nervous. You are being watched and judged. The fact that you are half naked in front of a bunch of people, while being watched and judged doesn't help any either. And, though not a life and death struggle, you know deep down inside that this... counts. And all that changes your physical game. You may think you go hard in practice. You may think your partners do. But in competition everythings a step up.

But why the heck am _I_ talking about this? ASIA, OMEGA, STRONG MACHINE!!!! Get your butt's in here and address this!

**Omar** · Posted On: 10/29/2004 11:12am

Originally Posted by Osiris

Honestly Ronin, ranks mean ****. As far as point sparring goes, it sucks. More than anything, the event has to be continuous to a degree and painful.

Maybe it's no coincidence that 'rank' is also slang for smelling like ****.

**Feryk** · Posted On: 10/29/2004 11:12am

What I am concerned about is the over regulation of the competitions in question. When I was much younger (19), I used to kickbox. We would sometimes fight against a local karate school. I ended up fighting one of their 'champions', an 18 year old BB who was very impressed with himself.

In truth, he was faster than almost anyone I had seen at that time. He used a gyaku-tsuki (chambered at the waist), and a roundhouse kick that was unbelieveably quick.

Unfortunately, point competition had become the focus of his training. I fought him as an orange belt, in a 'continuous sparring' environment (we don't stop when a point is scored, and we use 'moderate' contact). He would score first every time. But he wouldn't know what to do afterwards. And his kicks felt like slaps from my six year old girl.

By the end of a two minute round, he had hit me maybe a dozen times, none of which had any power. I actually ended up hitting him more, because I would take his first move, then close. Once I got close, it was easy to punch or sweep him.

In the end, I think it freaked him out a little. He had never bothered to train his techniques for power, and never to follow up. He was visiting from another club, so I never heard what happened to him, but I think it was clear his focus was too centred on winning point competitons.

I guess I would say that competition is a tool. In the hands of a master sensei, they can be great for teaching skills. An idiot, however, can wreck a perfectly good student (as above). Now that I'm old (35), I really don't care if I win or lose anymore, but stepping in the ring with someone from another club is fun.

**Ronin** · Posted On: 10/29/2004 11:37am

While I agree, Ranks means very little nowdays.
It is, at best, semi-quality control.

If rank means so little, why base rank advancement on comeptition?

I don't know if I made this clear, but I agree that competition is a valuable tool, and indeed, unless someone has competeted on a semi-regular level, in competitions that are as close to "alive" as a person can find, they have not truly grasped the essence of combat in the MA.

But, playing the hardass here, many schools competition is strictly "controlled competition", so how important is competition in that regard?
It may even do more harm than good.

**wakinonioi** · Posted On: 10/29/2004 11:46am

Originally Posted by Matt W.

In fact, I didn't even consider myself a "wrestler" until I had competed. .

You are correct.

***WhiteShark*** · Posted On: 10/29/2004 11:49am

In our school competition is required but winning is not. I think that is the key here. Anyone in at "almost" any age can compete if properly trained. No one says they have to win though. They just need to develop the unique perspective that comes from hard contact with an opponent that wants to hurt you.

PS- JABG I competed in a no-weightclass knockdown karate tournament 6 months ago...

**Ronin** · Posted On: 10/29/2004 11:57am

Originally Posted by WhiteShark

In our school competition is required but winning is not. I think that is the key here. Anyone in at "almost" any age can compete if properly trained. No one says they have to win though. They just need to develop the unique perspective that comes from hard contact with an opponent that wants to hurt you.

PS- JABG I competed in a no-weightclass knockdown karate tournament 6 months ago...

Yes, I agree, 100%.

**Gezere** · Posted On: 10/29/2004 12:20pm

I wouldn't call Muay Thai a sport art either, there are plenty of things in Muay Thai that are taught appropriate for a "real" fight that are banned in the ring.

You'd be surprised how many pple don't understand that the competiton format doesn't always represent the whole spectrum of the art. Kyokushin is a prime example. Pple actually think the Kyokushin pple DON'T train to strike the face. :eusa_snoo

That it prepares you for a "real fight" does not disqualify it from being a sport art. In fact, I believe sport arts do the best job of preparing one for a "real fight" because in sport arts you actually fight!

So true. I think that is one point naysayers of sport comps forget. YOU ARE ACTUALLY FIGHTING. Sure its in a safe enviorment and with rules but if you can't handle that what makes you think you're going to be able ot handle a REAL fight.

You may think you go hard in practice. You may think your partners do. But in competition everythings a step up.

Another very good point. Matt already addressed the factors involved. Stepping out in front of pple to pit yourself against another person who wants to win has much as you do. That takes a good set of cajones for that and the match hasn't started yet. There are different levels to that as well. In sports like BJJ, Judo, Wrestling, etc. there are several matches going on at the same time but sports like MMA, Boxing, MT ALL the attention is focused on you. :5eek:

And we all know that not all competitions are created equal. Point sparring is a game of tag. Fun game but bad for actually Martial arts. So what you must remember is DON'T PLAY WUSSY GAMES! MAN UP, BITCH!
:qleft4:

ut why the heck am _I_ talking about this? ASIA, OMEGA, STRONG MACHINE!!!! Get your butt's in here and address this!

:tongue3:

In our school competition is required but winning is not. I think that is the key here.

BINGO. As I mentioned earlier just stepping up takes alot of heart. But to add to what WS is saying another main point is the you LEARN from you experiences, win or lose.

**DCS** · Posted On: 10/29/2004 12:38pm

Originally Posted by WhiteShark

In our school competition is required but winning is not. I think that is the key here. Anyone in at "almost" any age can compete if properly trained. No one says they have to win though. They just need to develop the unique perspective that comes from hard contact with an opponent that wants to hurt you.

I agree with you.

**justA black guy** · Posted On: 10/30/2004 4:13pm

Originally Posted by WhiteShark

In our school competition is required but winning is not. I think that is the key here. Anyone in at "almost" any age can compete if properly trained. No one says they have to win though. They just need to develop the unique perspective that comes from hard contact with an opponent that wants to hurt you.

PS- JABG I competed in a no-weightclass knockdown karate tournament 6 months ago...

Was this shidokan? how many people competed?