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  1. Ronin is offline

    Merry Christmas Bitch

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    Posted On:
    10/27/2004 10:30am

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     Style: Canadian Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Competition and the Martial arts

    Inspired by the discussion on the 20 years thread.

    The role of competition in the MA.

    Now, competition, in its many forms, is one of the ways to test/judge your skill in the MA.
    Its a level playing field for all.

    But, should it be used as a "measuring stick" for progession in the MA ?
    Should belt advancement be tied to competition sucess ?
  2. Jekyll is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/27/2004 10:40am

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     Style: San shou(tai chi) +judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    no belt, no problem.

    Compeating can be a good messure of how well you fight. doesnt necissarily qualify you to teach though.
    Judo in the uks got round this by introducing teaching sceems as seperate from belt qualifications (which messure competitive skill and technical ability)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickx
    It must suck for legit practitioners of tai chi like Cullion to see their art get all watered down into exercise for seniors.
    Those who esteme qi have no strength. ~ Exposition of Insights into the Thirteen Postures Attrib: Wu Yuxiang founder of Wu style tai chi.
  3. Ronin is offline

    Merry Christmas Bitch

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    Posted On:
    10/27/2004 10:42am

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     Style: Canadian Shidokan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My view:
    I have always competed, wither it was boxing, judo or kyokushin, with weight limits and without ( kyokushin was no-weight limit for a bit and then it was under 200 and over 200).
    I competed up until I went into the army and even a bit while in the army, but I retired from "active competition" in about 98-99.
    I am now 35 and NOT interested in all in competition anymore.

    I have won more than I lost ( which isn't saying much).

    I have never viewed competition as anything other than one of the many parts of the MA, no more or no less important than anything else ( well, more important than Kata training I must confess).

    I don't recall if any of my ranks were ever based on how well I did in competition or even if the fact that I competed mattered for rank.

    I wouldn't take back any of the experiences I got from competition, BUT, at the same time, I don't place that high a value on any of the victories, indeed, I remember the defeats more...
  4. DCS is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/27/2004 10:50am

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     Style: 柔道

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ronin69
    Should belt advancement be tied to competition sucess ?
    Advancement in rank has to be done NOT ONLY based in competition sucess.

    Competition results, for instance, sometimes are based in mastering a few techniques very useful in the sportive environment.

    So, people centered in sportive results, don't train techniques that, due his personal approach ( or size, strenght, ...) or the ruleset, don't work in the sportive environment. (example: due to limited time judo newaza is not trained like in BJJ, then as a result, judo newaza sucks comparatively).

    This can be detrimental for the MA promoting people who will became not well rounded fighter and without knowledge of the curriculum.
  5. ImAlrdyNum is offline
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    aahhh...the colors

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    Posted On:
    10/27/2004 11:14am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo & Sub Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I just got promoted to yellow belt in Judo based on the rank "points" I earned from winning my first tournament. Not only do you have to master the techniques for advancement, we actually have to take a written test on japanese language, and history. Also, a certain amount of points need to be earned, either from competition, or service, like attending clinics, etc. I guess it's cool, but rank means **** to me, I'm only doing it to be allowed to compete at a higher level.
    Regardless, that doesn't change the fact that kickboxing is commonly known as fighting while grappling simply isn't. - Osiris
  6. Thaiboxerken is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/27/2004 11:18am

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     Style: Kru-MuayThai,GJJ-Blue

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Competition is just another form of training, one that I feel is essential.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire.
  7. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/27/2004 12:27pm

    Business Class Supporting Memberstaff
     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Outside of going out in public and trying to get in real fights, competition is the only (legal) way you'll know you're any good at what you're learning.
  8. Ronin is offline

    Merry Christmas Bitch

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    Posted On:
    10/27/2004 12:36pm

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     Style: Canadian Shidokan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Competition doesn't equal fighting per se, but it is as close as we can get in the training environment.
    I don't know of anyone that has ever refused to compete.
    While I agree that competition is an integral part of the MA experience, I am not sure what place sucess flalls into that, nor at what point then, does competition stop being a factor in rank progression?
  9. Matt W. is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/27/2004 12:48pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, TKD BB

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Competition doesn't equal fighting per se, but it is as close as we can get in the training environment.
    I have a problem with your semantics here (and I do think it matters). Combat competition IS "fighting". To define it as not fighting or "not a real fight" is to redefine the plain meaning of the word fight. A boxing match is certainly a "fight". An MMA match is certainly a "fight". Now, competition is not the same thing as a "street fight" or self-defense, but it is a fight. Though I know you didn't mean it this way, Ronin, I've seen too may people use semantics like this to belittle combat athletics and make excuses as to why their failure (or fear to even compete) in it doesn't matter. EG. "Who cares if I couldn't beat a boxer in the ring? That's not fighting, it's a sport." Totally wrong, man.

    I don't know of anyone that has ever refused to compete.
    Surely you haven't missed all the people that are "too deadly for the ring"?

    While I agree that competition is an integral part of the MA experience, I am not sure what place sucess flalls into that, nor at what point then, does competition stop being a factor in rank progression?
    I don't know about success. I mean, no one is saying you have to be a champion to be legit. But, using myself as an example... Not being a naturally tough, large or strong guy, and not having naturally grown up a "scrapper", there's no way I'm going to learn how to fight without actually doing a lot of fighting in practice. It is not just one aspect, but is essential. And though there may be some people that have the natural toughness to be able to fight without that kind of training, I'd say the majority are people like me.
  10. Ronin is offline

    Merry Christmas Bitch

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    Posted On:
    10/27/2004 12:54pm

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     Style: Canadian Shidokan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Matt, thanks for clearing up what I said, you RAT !!

    The whole "competition isn't fighting" thing is, like you said, a bad way to put it.
    I have never feared for my life or even been worried when I competed, but I ALWAYS felt that way when I fought outside the "sport environment".
    Well, maybe not aways...

    As for the success factor ( yes I finally learnt how to spell it), I have learned alot of stuff from guys that have NOT be as successful as others that I have learned LESS from.
    I mean, fighting full contact in kyokushin is one thing if you are in a "no weight" tournament, its quite another if their are weight limits...

    Success should be held as relevant to what one has done, not to how many competitions someone has won/placed in.

    No?
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