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  1. johnny3443 is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/19/2007 7:56pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JP
    Which school? Fifth River?
    Yes, their website says that they moved out in Oct, & to email them about future training.

    http://fifthriver.com/home.htm
  2. JP is offline
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    It's all about the clinch. The clinch, I said.

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2007 8:11pm

    supporting member
     Style: SAMBO, mma, jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by johnny3443
    Yes, their website says that they moved out in Oct, & to email them about future training.

    http://fifthriver.com/home.htm

    That's interesting. They had some problems with with the system and its leaders similar to ours here in NYC. But then Barbara promoted a bunch of them and they shut the **** up and towed the line.

    Supposedly, Matt, one of the black belts there was training BJJ on the side. Don't now if he still is.
    Last edited by JP; 12/19/2007 8:59pm at .
    Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
    and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    As far as possible, without surrender,
    be on good terms with all persons.
    Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
    and listen to others,
    even to the dull and ignorant;
    they too have their story.

    -excerpt of the poem called "Desiderata," by Max Ehrman, 1927.
  3. Lord Of Chaos is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2007 10:57pm


     Style: pentjak silat/ kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    whoa- this is really weird. i had no idea that this barbara niggell person had this type of a cult following. i live in ri and am only less than an hour's drive away from her school in the cape. when i asked my silat instructor what her deal was, his reply was a chuckling "you don't want to know...."

    anyway, aside from some jurus (for training purposes) i was never really taught any mysticism in amerindo self defense. that is largely due to my teachers all being christian or non- religious (seems that a lot of the indonesian/ silat trances, animal impersonating, etc. come from early hindu animist practices, as well as some esoteric islam). i have trained with some muslim penjakkers outside of amerindo and didn't get any mystical/ spiritual instruction from them either. in fact, i was actually encouraged to train in outside systems like bjj, boxing, grappling, etc. if i wanted to learn more about those kinds of fighting. the ma community here in ri is so close knit it isn't hard to find people to cross train with, which is always helpful.

    maybe if i was training in a more quasi- religious cult like atmosphere and had the whole "this art has it all and is the only art that matters" mind- melt i might be worse off. i have no complaints about my organization- i just wish my teacher would get back to teaching. really miss those brutal classes!

    but anyway jp, i don't know what you intend to do now, but i hope you don't abandon se asian ma's. i agree that there is a lot of misunderstood, misinterpreted and straight up ineffective (at least in western society) content in them, but you still can't knock the "good" stuff.
  4. JP is offline
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    It's all about the clinch. The clinch, I said.

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    Posted On:
    12/20/2007 12:00am

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     Style: SAMBO, mma, jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    [QUOTE=buncha good stuff.[/QUOTE]


    No intention of abandoning SE asian martial arts at all. Believe me. Actually, Phil Dunlap who has posted elsewhere in this thread is my MMA coach, though I haven't been able to train with him lately. He teaches burmese martial arts. So no, if I study another asian martial art it will be south east asian. I love knives and my original intention when looking for silat was for the edged weapon instruction.

    As for Barbara, I would love to speak with your teacher about her, if he's willing. No bullshit from me I promise. But I'd love to get another perspective. Also, would love to speak with an indonesia martial arts guy who isn't weird. The deThuaors brothers make me nervous because of all the creepry religious stuff. I'm in this to learn to fight. Nothing more.

    As for Barbara Niggel, she won't let her students cross train in other arts and gets angry at the very suggestion that poekoelan might be anything less than everything you might need as a fighter or a human being. She has set Willy Wetzel up as a christ-like figure. She actively preaches that his teachings can save the world.

    She's totally full of ****.
    Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
    and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    As far as possible, without surrender,
    be on good terms with all persons.
    Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
    and listen to others,
    even to the dull and ignorant;
    they too have their story.

    -excerpt of the poem called "Desiderata," by Max Ehrman, 1927.
  5. tiger313 is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/20/2007 1:35am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: poekoelan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    again, ditto
  6. JP is offline
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    It's all about the clinch. The clinch, I said.

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    Posted On:
    12/20/2007 11:36am

    supporting member
     Style: SAMBO, mma, jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tiger313
    again, ditto

    Thanks sam.
    Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
    and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    As far as possible, without surrender,
    be on good terms with all persons.
    Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
    and listen to others,
    even to the dull and ignorant;
    they too have their story.

    -excerpt of the poem called "Desiderata," by Max Ehrman, 1927.
  7. Lord Of Chaos is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/20/2007 1:03pm


     Style: pentjak silat/ kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JP
    No intention of abandoning SE asian martial arts at all. Believe me. Actually, Phil Dunlap who has posted elsewhere in this thread is my MMA coach, though I haven't been able to train with him lately. He teaches burmese martial arts. So no, if I study another asian martial art it will be south east asian. I love knives and my original intention when looking for silat was for the edged weapon instruction.

    As for Barbara, I would love to speak with your teacher about her, if he's willing. No bullshit from me I promise. But I'd love to get another perspective. Also, would love to speak with an indonesia martial arts guy who isn't weird. The deThuaors brothers make me nervous because of all the creepry religious stuff. I'm in this to learn to fight. Nothing more.

    As for Barbara Niggel, she won't let her students cross train in other arts and gets angry at the very suggestion that poekoelan might be anything less than everything you might need as a fighter or a human being. She has set Willy Wetzel up as a christ-like figure. She actively preaches that his teachings can save the world.

    She's totally full of ****.

    i don't think my teacher actually ever trained with her but i'll ask him. i just think his bs detector went off, kind of like it does with a lot of people when they look into her stuff.

    good that you understand that silat = edged weapons. weird how little attention most american instructors pay to training with edged weapons.
  8. JP is offline
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    It's all about the clinch. The clinch, I said.

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    Posted On:
    12/20/2007 4:45pm

    supporting member
     Style: SAMBO, mma, jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Chaos
    i don't think my teacher actually ever trained with her but i'll ask him. i just think his bs detector went off, kind of like it does with a lot of people when they look into her stuff.

    good that you understand that silat = edged weapons. weird how little attention most american instructors pay to training with edged weapons.
    Theres none in Poekoelan. I mean, there is a knife form, which is absurd in terms of realistic blade handling. I probably know more from research and watching instructional tapes then I was ever going to learn from them, but that was my initial attraction. Some day, when I have some disposable income, I am going to find a good edges weapons instructor and spend some time working on it. Right now I'm concentrating on MMA and empty hands.

    I had one private lesson with Phil in which I learned more in an hour about knives then anybody else I've talked to. It was great. I just have to judicious about how I spend my time and at the moment I was more interested in fighting.

    What do you guys do in your school to train that stuff? Is their sparring with trainers and whatnot?

    Oh, and a general announcement. I HAVE TAPES FROM THE LAST SEMINAR THAT SHE TAUGHT PERSONALLY. An example of some of her super secret bullshit. At the moment they're on DV tapes and does anybody out there have any advice on how to transfer this **** to youtube? Thanks.
    Last edited by JP; 12/20/2007 4:48pm at .
    Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
    and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    As far as possible, without surrender,
    be on good terms with all persons.
    Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
    and listen to others,
    even to the dull and ignorant;
    they too have their story.

    -excerpt of the poem called "Desiderata," by Max Ehrman, 1927.
  9. Lord Of Chaos is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/20/2007 5:56pm


     Style: pentjak silat/ kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JP
    What do you guys do in your school to train that stuff? Is their sparring with trainers and whatnot?.

    oh yeah. we did a LOT of full speed/ full contact knife sparring that often got out of hand, didn't end when the whistle was blown, had to have a couple people jump in and stop it, etc. i'm not bragging when i talk about that, but that **** got friggin hairy a few times. we had this one kali kid who used to go completely mental when we knife sparred. something primal happens when you brandish a weapon (even a dull aluminum one). we did it all at least a few times too- double knife, knife on knife, knife against empty hand, knife against stick, etc. the results of that were similar to the empty hand sparring, and the prognosis about empty hand knife disarms is that they are 99% bullshit. we did one sayoc kali knife disarm that worked pretty well about 10% of the time. other than that what i learned about knives is that if someone pulls one on you with the intent of using it, do one thing- run.

    what was cool about amerindo is that we had knife AND empty hand versions of most of our techniques and a cool cutting pattern that you could use as a template for impromptu techniques. a lot of switching hands too. i learned some cool knife jurus from a man named tristan sutrisno in pa a few years back as well. his stuff was fancier tho. a lot of amerindo knife work is from dutch KNIL techniques.

    other good knifework i learned was from dr. gyi's bando system. i will not get into the controversy surrounding him, but he had some cool material. i really liked his kukri techniques.

    i favor the simpler stuff personally. a lot of kali/ escrima is overly complicated and i question the effectiveness of it under pressure (unless of course, you practice it WAYYY more than i would ever have time to myself).
  10. JP is offline
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    It's all about the clinch. The clinch, I said.

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    Posted On:
    12/20/2007 6:01pm

    supporting member
     Style: SAMBO, mma, jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Chaos
    oh yeah. we did a LOT of full speed/ full contact knife sparring that often got out of hand, didn't end when the whistle was blown, had to have a couple people jump in and stop it, etc. i'm not bragging when i talk about that, but that **** got friggin hairy a few times. we had this one kali kid who used to go completely mental when we knife sparred. something primal happens when you brandish a weapon (even a dull aluminum one). we did it all at least a few times too- double knife, knife on knife, knife against empty hand, knife against stick, etc. the results of that were similar to the empty hand sparring, and the prognosis about empty hand knife disarms is that they are 99% bullshit. we did one sayoc kali knife disarm that worked pretty well about 10% of the time. other than that what i learned about knives is that if someone pulls one on you with the intent of using it, do one thing- run.

    what was cool about amerindo is that we had knife AND empty hand versions of most of our techniques and a cool cutting pattern that you could use as a template for impromptu techniques. a lot of switching hands too. i learned some cool knife jurus from a man named tristan sutrisno in pa a few years back as well. his stuff was fancier tho. a lot of amerindo knife work is from dutch KNIL techniques.

    other good knifework i learned was from dr. gyi's bando system. i will not get into the controversy surrounding him, but he had some cool material. i really liked his kukri techniques.

    i favor the simpler stuff personally. a lot of kali/ escrima is overly complicated and i question the effectiveness of it under pressure (unless of course, you practice it WAYYY more than i would ever have time to myself).
    Ditto on the simple stuff. I've always preferred it. Anything overly complicated or flowery turns me off. Even when I see really complicated stuff in BJJ I go "huh, cool but, probably not going in my toolbox"

    Sparring with a weapon can get out of hand. I've done a little. Mostly with knives and yeah, everybody gets cut and screw disarming it.

    When you say Dutch Knil you mean the special forces regiments don't you? I think wetzel was supposed to be one of those guys. Its one of the stories I believe.

    Do you currently train in RI? Would you be coming to any of the Boston throwdowns in the new year? I'm thinking about heading up there for one.
    Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
    and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    As far as possible, without surrender,
    be on good terms with all persons.
    Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
    and listen to others,
    even to the dull and ignorant;
    they too have their story.

    -excerpt of the poem called "Desiderata," by Max Ehrman, 1927.
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