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  1. Ronin.74 is offline

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2007 2:47pm


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Drunken Bear
    Well the videos that Ronin.74 posted sure got taken down in a hurry.
    Yeah they pulled everything except the grappling vid and the MMA training vid. How strange? It's almost as if they want people to believe that those two vids are complete representations of their school.
  2. Zendetta is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2007 2:47pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: MMA, functional JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JP
    As for the lesbian mafia comment? How does that have any bearing on bullshido?
    LOL. You misunderstand me, but that's entirely my fault so let me clarify.

    My impression, again superficial, was that almost all (or maybe all) of the Oakland school's instructor's were very butch lesbians. This isn't a problem - lots of lesbians are into martial arts.

    The issue was that they all seemed to be fronting a deliberately "hard", macho kind of presence that struck me as a put on. And they yelled. Alot. And VERY LOUD.

    All in all the tone of the demo was like Rex-Kwon-Do taught by Angry Feminists.

    I was reminded of the energy of ubiquitous mulletheaded 8 year old in stars 'n' stripes gi, belting out extra loud kiai to back up his American Karate, only transposed onto the labrys-wielding amazon crowd.

    None of this is so bad in itself until you remember they don't really spar or train effectively.

    So,
    Macho (lesbian) instructors
    Lots of Yelling
    No actual fighting
    Questions? Empty your Cup!
    Create Your Own Katas
    "Macho types may not like it"

    Reminds me that "Tough isn't how you act, its how you train", and simply makes me wonder if the Oakland instructors, with their wannabe badass attitude, arn't bringing some pretty familiar gender politics into the ol' TMA vs Functional MA struggle.

    In this area, such issues could/ would contribute to the cult-like atmosphere. For example, how might a non-sparring lesbian feminist ptt instructor handle a question about a female fighting against a bigger male opponent?

    Quote Originally Posted by JP
    Grow up.
    Yeah... that's not likely to happen.

    But I will say this: I prefer my Lesbian Warriors more like Kat Johnson - smiling, goofy, drugged-up, and actually able to fight, as opposed to an Andrea Dworkin in Asian Drag.
    Last edited by Zendetta; 12/19/2007 3:20pm at .
    "You know what I like about you, William? You like guns AND meditation."
  3. JP is offline
    JP's Avatar

    It's all about the clinch. The clinch, I said.

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2007 3:40pm

    supporting member
     Style: SAMBO, mma, jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dunlap
    Justin I just showed you how to get int touch with who YOU really are. Anything I got out of you was really in there to begin with. Working with you has allways been an honor and a pleasure. The only thing you owe me is what you are doing right now -Try to stop people from being hurt or manipulated and stand up for what is right

    As to these Pokelan people other than Sam (you have told me he has always done right by you and doesn't drink the Kool aid) what they are doing to people is shamefull. The focus is on manipulating damaged souls for their own end. Brainwashing people and stealing their hope for financial reward in my mind is about as low as you can get.

    The reason I am so happy you have decided to get involved and add your input is I saw how disillutioned you were and i am proud of you for taking this stand. You were obviously paying more attention to me tha just how to stomp on someone
    Thanks, Phil. Means a lot. And yeah, it between getting choked and knocked the **** out in your gym I think I heard you. Thanks again.
    Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
    and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    As far as possible, without surrender,
    be on good terms with all persons.
    Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
    and listen to others,
    even to the dull and ignorant;
    they too have their story.

    -excerpt of the poem called "Desiderata," by Max Ehrman, 1927.
  4. JP is offline
    JP's Avatar

    It's all about the clinch. The clinch, I said.

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2007 3:43pm

    supporting member
     Style: SAMBO, mma, jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin.74
    Yeah they pulled everything except the grappling vid and the MMA training vid. How strange? It's almost as if they want people to believe that those two vids are complete representations of their school.

    The vids aren't down. They're still there.
    Last edited by JP; 12/19/2007 4:09pm at .
    Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
    and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    As far as possible, without surrender,
    be on good terms with all persons.
    Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
    and listen to others,
    even to the dull and ignorant;
    they too have their story.

    -excerpt of the poem called "Desiderata," by Max Ehrman, 1927.
  5. JP is offline
    JP's Avatar

    It's all about the clinch. The clinch, I said.

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2007 3:50pm

    supporting member
     Style: SAMBO, mma, jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Zendetta
    LOL. You misunderstand me, but that's entirely my fault so let me clarify.

    snip: a lot of good stuff, but I'll save Phrost the bandwidth.
    Yeah... that's not likely to happen.

    But I will say this: I prefer my Lesbian Warriors more like Kat Johnson - smiling, goofy, drugged-up, and actually able to fight, as opposed to an Andrea Dworkin in Asian Drag.

    Okay,

    Iím glad to hear I got the wrong impression because Iíve read the other stuff you post and youíre rarely as unimaginative as ďhee hee dyke mafia.Ē That makes me feel better and thanks for clarifying.

    I ainít growing up anytime either, its taken all my willpower to not post ďHey guys, if youíre reading, take a flying **** a rolling donut and you canít fight for ****!!!Ē

    Well, there you go, thatís torn it.

    Anyway, Louiseís school and three of the others are heavy with lesbians. I actually like all the ones Iíve interacted with. The ultra militant ones rarely pull that **** with me. Or didnít there, but thereís a definete flavor within the schools.

    Iíve heard stories about the portland school thatís called One With Heart now used to be titled Women With Heart and was a female only martial arts school.

    So, youíre on the money, I just really donít want this thread shipped to trollshido or YMAS so I snapped at you a bit. Sorry. It was unwarranted.

    Iím working on video of one of the seminars after **** got really weird. Thereís going to be some time before I can post it, at least a week, so Iíll work on that and then necro the thread when I have them. In the meantime, lets keep it open as long as anybody is willing to post in it.

    And just wanted to thank everybody at bullshido for reading. This is the first time Iíve ever written or communicated about the amount of crap I saw and dealt with while I was there and its been good to get it off my chest.
    Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
    and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    As far as possible, without surrender,
    be on good terms with all persons.
    Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
    and listen to others,
    even to the dull and ignorant;
    they too have their story.

    -excerpt of the poem called "Desiderata," by Max Ehrman, 1927.
  6. JP is offline
    JP's Avatar

    It's all about the clinch. The clinch, I said.

    Join Date
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    Posted On:
    12/19/2007 4:07pm

    supporting member
     Style: SAMBO, mma, jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Chaos
    THAT is EXACTLY why a lot of tma's suck ass, and precisely why i agree with mma types on here many times when they rag on them. fancy shmancy techniques without any intent, power, ahhhh screw it- any "fighting" that is not trained VIOLENTLY is completely ineffective no matter what it is. end of story. any sparring i did in silat often degenerated into sloppy brawling when it was really "on", making me question the value of most fancy technical techniques that only seem to work on non- resisting opponents at half speed....



    Thatís also what I saw every time people actually started to go at it.

    Its funny too, but one of the biggest flaws that saw in the teaching is that if the student was failing to do something when they were sparring they were told to start doing it.

    Hereís the problem though, there was never any live drilling of any of the techniques that we were supposed to be encorporating into sparring. You canít fault a student for something they havenít been taught. All the ranks I saw that could actually fight the fighting all looked very simple. High percentage techniques like leg sweeps and punches prevaled. There was a minimum of flowery hand-movement.

    Barbara used to bitch at us that we werenít encorporating cuntao, meaning the throws, locks and self-defense techniques into our fighting, but the cuntao was never trained live and never drilled live so how did she expect it to come out when we were fighting? You have to teach most people through comprehensive drills how to do that stuff.

    Like Iíve said before thereís a lot of good stuff in the system physically, but the people running the show are tweaked. Really tweaked. Either that or know precisely nothing about fighting and are convinced theyíre a bunch of badasses.
    Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
    and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    As far as possible, without surrender,
    be on good terms with all persons.
    Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
    and listen to others,
    even to the dull and ignorant;
    they too have their story.

    -excerpt of the poem called "Desiderata," by Max Ehrman, 1927.
  7. Zendetta is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2007 4:36pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: MMA, functional JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JP
    Anyway, Louiseís school and three of the others are heavy with lesbians. I actually like all the ones Iíve interacted with. The ultra militant ones rarely pull that **** with me. Or didnít there, but thereís a definete flavor within the schools.

    Iíve heard stories about the portland school thatís called One With Heart now used to be titled Women With Heart and was a female only martial arts school.

    So, youíre on the money, I just really donít want this thread shipped to trollshido or YMAS so I snapped at you a bit. Sorry. It was unwarranted.
    No worries man. Your response wasn't unwarranted at all - the misunderstanding was my fault.

    So, you know what I'm talking about - glad to know it wasn't just my heteronormative social conditioning! And of course my issue isn't with the instructors sexuality at all.

    Its more like:
    Insular Community + Highly Charged Social Issue + No Objective Testing = Cult/Bullshido/Madness.

    When I saw their demo several years ago, I thought it felt cultlike. The instructors and students obviously couldn't fight for ****, but they had tons of "spirit" and esprit de corps.

    I'd love to hear specifics, as long as it won't drag the issue into abject trolldom.
    Last edited by Zendetta; 12/19/2007 4:47pm at .
    "You know what I like about you, William? You like guns AND meditation."
  8. JP is offline
    JP's Avatar

    It's all about the clinch. The clinch, I said.

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2007 6:02pm

    supporting member
     Style: SAMBO, mma, jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Zendetta
    No worries man. Your response wasn't unwarranted at all - the misunderstanding was my fault.

    So, you know what I'm talking about - glad to know it wasn't just my heteronormative social conditioning! And of course my issue isn't with the instructors sexuality at all.

    Its more like:
    Insular Community + Highly Charged Social Issue + No Objective Testing = Cult/Bullshido/Madness.

    When I saw their demo several years ago, I thought it felt cultlike. The instructors and students obviously couldn't fight for ****, but they had tons of "spirit" and esprit de corps.

    I'd love to hear specifics, as long as it won't drag the issue into abject trolldom.

    The testing is patently ridiculous. I mean they're difficult. But I've yet to see anybody fail. I've heard stories and I've known people to quit, but I've never met or spoken to anybody who's actually failed a test.

    Sam would talk about the beginnings of the system. The stories about Wetzel's original school in Beaver Falls, PA. sound like a rough TMA school. Apparently all they did was run traditional indonesian lunkas and fight each other. Thats probably true if everything I've heard about wetzel is even half true. He sounds capable.

    But its faded. Sam's beginning training includes stories of knock-down drag out brawls on hardwood floors. They don't sound incredibly technical, but they sound like they were at least doing the thing. So somewhere along the line this **** got all touchy feely and honestly I think it had a lot to do with money. Its a common theme throughout the history of martial arts that systems that emphasized fighting had less students. Because you had to fight. A lot. Most people don't like getting punched in the face. So I think everybody made the system a lot gentler by penalizing people who go to rough. I got my balls broken for this **** constantly til I learned to toe the line or only spar with people that liked to fight hard.

    By the time I was a blackbelt that didn't happen anymore. I had to look really hard to find a fight. They had these stupid inter-school tournaments too, with their own medals and everything. Wouldn't let anybody else participate. The rules were retarded, I think I mention it. It was two rounds of a minute with a possible third round if the first two didn't produce a winner.

    Excessive contact that produced "redness" on the skin let alone a knock out resulted in disqualification.

    No points, it was judged by a few black-belts. Sometimes black-belts who couldn't fight for ****. One of the criteria was how compassionate you were. Which, kinda made sense at the time because I was in cult land, but after the fact and having fought in the cage now myself, what my mma coach, Phil Dunlap, says is true. To be kind to your enemy/opponent is to be cruel to yourself.

    I went off on a tangent. The tests were a lot closer to what I would hear about the personality destruction you hear about in the military. They tear you down so they can re-build you. Now in the military that makes sense. Unit solidarity, etc. Actually for a cult its kinda perfect. The tests get progressively longer and harder. Some part of them are really hard. The "fights" can be difficult as hell, not because you have to fight hard, because contact was often frowned upon, but because you're dropped for 10 fingertip pushups in between each round. After moving for three minutes with somebody. So it can be difficult. Especially since you're doing a bunch of other ****, you've allowed to have water only when the instructor tells you and stuff like that.

    But again, the lack of contact produced some very unrealistic fighting scenarios. If people aren't afraid to get whacked they're gonna do all this stupid **** like stand in front of you waving their arms when you'd like nothing more than to knock them the **** out.
    Last edited by JP; 12/19/2007 6:09pm at .
    Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
    and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    As far as possible, without surrender,
    be on good terms with all persons.
    Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
    and listen to others,
    even to the dull and ignorant;
    they too have their story.

    -excerpt of the poem called "Desiderata," by Max Ehrman, 1927.
  9. johnny3443 is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/19/2007 6:49pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Good stuff here, seems like the vids are still available.

    http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=poekoelantacoma

    I just noticed today that the school right by my house is now closed.
  10. JP is offline
    JP's Avatar

    It's all about the clinch. The clinch, I said.

    Join Date
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    Posted On:
    12/19/2007 7:34pm

    supporting member
     Style: SAMBO, mma, jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by johnny3443
    Good stuff here, seems like the vids are still available.

    http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=poekoelantacoma

    I just noticed today that the school right by my house is now closed.
    Which school? Fifth River?
    Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
    and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    As far as possible, without surrender,
    be on good terms with all persons.
    Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
    and listen to others,
    even to the dull and ignorant;
    they too have their story.

    -excerpt of the poem called "Desiderata," by Max Ehrman, 1927.
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