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  1. JP is offline
    JP's Avatar

    It's all about the clinch. The clinch, I said.

    Join Date
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    Brooklyn, NY
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    2,290

    Posted On:
    12/19/2007 10:25am

    supporting member
     Style: SAMBO, mma, jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    To Phil: Thank you. The things youíve taught me about being a man and being a fighter are lessons that will stick with me for the rest of my life. I owe you a lot and Iím grateful for the place you provide for people at Advanced Fighting Systems. Iím just sorry I canít train with you more regularly.

    Phil coached me through all three of my fights. He dragged me through and never let me quit and that means the world to me that somebody wouldnít let me give up or give up on myself. Thanks Phil for your support.

    Sam: The things I learned training with you made me more human and while we might debate about cuntao, thereís nothing else. Thanks for the changes you brought about in my life, I was pretty much a shell of a person and you and your wife pulled me through some of the worst **** Iíve ever dealt with. So thank you for that.Also, for giving me a home and a place to go to in that school, making me feel like I was part of something good. Even when it got bad.


    Oh boy.

    Here we go. Looks like these folks did this to themselves with the youtube post. My predicition is that these donít stay up terribly long once Barbara Niggel has seen them and/or the ridicule that theyíre gonna draw.

    Those videos are from the Tacomo branch of the system. Its run by a second degree black belt who I donít know very well. I have to applaud their efforts partially, she has seen some of the holes in the system, for instance teaching knife defense when you donít teach any kind of effective weapon work, let alone knives. And it looks like sheís trying.

    Look, let me just end the rumors.

    They canít fight. Oh sure, they can fight a little but years of non-contact and pressure tested fighting has leached out the important things you learn from hard-contact sparring. I donít believe that thereís anything wrong with the system itself, but its training philosophy has turned into something deeply flawed.

    Its become a fully dead system from a training perspective.

    I agree with kuntaosilat guyís assessment of indonesian arts. For myself, Iíve never seen really good indonesian martial arts for myself and Iíd love to because I love the martial arts of south east asia that Iíve seen. Iíd just love to see them made effective again. Iíd love nothing more to find somebody to prove me wrong on this.

    To answer her other question the **** about the ouija board is unfortunately, completely true. Iíve witnessed it first hand. Iíve seen her use it to control peopleís lives and claim that sheís in direct contact with her Willy Wetzel. Iíve seen her treat the board and the utterances from it, which I believe are just her delusions, with a kind of messianic force. She treats Willyís ďwordĒ as law. For myself this kind of behavior doesnít jive with what Iíve heard, even from her, of Wetzel. He sounded like a lot of things, a man, a fighter and a soldier. He doesnít sound like a mystic with christ-like leanings. His approach to teaching always sounded pretty traditional to me and fairly devoid of bullshit.

    But he left without designating an heir, and his end was tragic, he died fighting with one of his sons over a dispute over a tax-return. And in the struggle his son killed him. Iím not blaming anybody in that one. His son was a vietnam veteran and the father was a soldier and a killer himself. These two fight I donít see a positive outcome. Period.

    But I would like to leave Wetzel alone. He never did anything to me. And Iíd like to let his name rest, thereís enough controversy in the indo-martial arts community as it is over this.

    I believe that Barbara used the board to deflect her more bizarre and meglomaniacal requests. It also helps that a great deal of the people drawn to her and her system often tend to be a little damaged. Its a surrogate family and people with healthy families donít usually seek surrogate ones. Just the way it is.

    But yes. The boardís true.

    As for the lesbian mafia comment? How does that have any bearing on bullshido? Grow up.

    The ground fighting system taught by barbara niggel is fine I think for fighting people who canít grapple or fight on the ground at all. It fits with other physical aspects of the system. But against a grappler? No dice.

    Two of Barbaraís top fighters from her group of top students and black-belts have both fought mid-level grapplers who are coached by a guy who regularly has his guys fighting is Massachuesetts, and who I will not name, youíre just gonna have to take my word. Anyway, they lost. Bad.

    Hereís the worst part of that though. Barbara Niggel yelled at them for losing and for being bad fighters when she sent them into the fight fully un-prepared for the eventuality of fighting a grappler. She would yell about ďstop playing their gameĒ and ďdonít let them get you on the groundĒ but never once did she offer advice for how to do that. Because she doesnít know.

    Thereís no grappling in Tulen. Somebody who says different is lying. They canít fight against somebody with any kind of training.

    When I left that school and started to look elsewhere for training I sparred with Ray Pina who is or has been a member of this board. He fighting regularly in the MMA scene. But at this point Ray was gearing up for his first fight, and had been training for MMA for around 4 months. He and I sparred. I used what I had learned.

    He beat the **** out of me. And Iíve never been so grateful in my life. What convinced me about the training methods of Barbaraís system is this: Ray didnít kick my ass in some spectacular, technical fashion. He knocked me on my ass and pounded me out while sitting on my chest. His aggression was what I was most un-prepared for. The lack of hard sparring in Barbaraís system creates a fighter unused to somebody who actually wants to beat their ass. As I was.

    More later. Any other questions?
    Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
    and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    As far as possible, without surrender,
    be on good terms with all persons.
    Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
    and listen to others,
    even to the dull and ignorant;
    they too have their story.

    -excerpt of the poem called "Desiderata," by Max Ehrman, 1927.
  2. JP is offline
    JP's Avatar

    It's all about the clinch. The clinch, I said.

    Join Date
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    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    2,290

    Posted On:
    12/19/2007 10:30am

    supporting member
     Style: SAMBO, mma, jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin.74
    Captain Sensilble has opened Pandora's box on this one. There are a ton of vids posted by someone listed as poekoelantacoma. Some real gems in there
    7iZoVTAKCI[/yt]

    Why does everything they do look like extradorinarily crappy CMA or poorly done Krotty (in some cases)

    This was also posted by the same youtube user
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG-wQnPWwiI

    Is this guy also part of Poekoelan or is he just a friend of the youtuber? Anyone?

    So, basically, these top videos aren't the best or most graceful examples of tulen forms but that 's the basic idea. The bottom video is just grappling and he didn't learn that in Tulen. Period.
    Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
    and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    As far as possible, without surrender,
    be on good terms with all persons.
    Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
    and listen to others,
    even to the dull and ignorant;
    they too have their story.

    -excerpt of the poem called "Desiderata," by Max Ehrman, 1927.
  3. tiger313 is offline

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    4

    Posted On:
    12/19/2007 10:45am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: poekoelan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    ditto

    Once again. ditto what Justin said.
    Justine in Tacoma is a friend of mine and from what I understand has welcomed mma training into her school on some level. She seems to be finding her way out of the Niggel quagmire and I wish her the best of luck.
    sam
  4. IndoChinese is offline

    AKAKTK

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    angola, ny
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    2,047

    Posted On:
    12/19/2007 11:07am


     Style: Liu Seong Gung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    we try to stay out of the drama. it only makes the entire community look bad in the end.
    well, that makes you guys the smartest of the indo bunch.
  5. IndoChinese is offline

    AKAKTK

    Join Date
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    Location
    angola, ny
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    Posted On:
    12/19/2007 11:10am


     Style: Liu Seong Gung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    should add to this that Barb Niggle is not the only PTTulen teacher or school owner. there are quite a few others, who have nothing to do with her.

    PTT is all throughout NY, PA, and OH.
  6. JP is offline
    JP's Avatar

    It's all about the clinch. The clinch, I said.

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    2,290

    Posted On:
    12/19/2007 11:37am

    supporting member
     Style: SAMBO, mma, jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by IndoChinese
    should add to this that Barb Niggle is not the only PTTulen teacher or school owner. there are quite a few others, who have nothing to do with her.

    PTT is all throughout NY, PA, and OH.

    To be precise, Niggel is the head of the Pttulen system. All the others are her students and under her direction. Poekoelan Tjimindie as a system tons of followers that have nothing to do with Tulen. But if its a Tulen school, than its hers. Period. You can't seperate one of them from the other. They all report and pay dues to Niggel.

    And yes, stay out of the drama. I agree. I don't have much interest in it either. But lineages and things are of no real interest to me. Either your shits real or its not. Her's is not. That's my beef with her. That and the way she treats some of her students.
    Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
    and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    As far as possible, without surrender,
    be on good terms with all persons.
    Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
    and listen to others,
    even to the dull and ignorant;
    they too have their story.

    -excerpt of the poem called "Desiderata," by Max Ehrman, 1927.
  7. Drunken Bear is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Vancouver WA
    Posts
    176

    Posted On:
    12/19/2007 1:09pm


     Style: WHKD & Doce Pares

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well the videos that Ronin.74 posted sure got taken down in a hurry.
  8. Lord Of Chaos is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    RI
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    155

    Posted On:
    12/19/2007 1:33pm


     Style: pentjak silat/ kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JP
    His aggression was what I was most un-prepared for. The lack of hard sparring in Barbaraís system creates a fighter unused to somebody who actually wants to beat their ass. As I was.

    THAT is EXACTLY why a lot of tma's suck ass, and precisely why i agree with mma types on here many times when they rag on them. fancy shmancy techniques without any intent, power, ahhhh screw it- any "fighting" that is not trained VIOLENTLY is completely ineffective no matter what it is. end of story. any sparring i did in silat often degenerated into sloppy brawling when it was really "on", making me question the value of most fancy technical techniques that only seem to work on non- resisting opponents at half speed....
  9. 7thSamurai is offline
    7thSamurai's Avatar

    Registered Member

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    Oct 2006
    Location
    Austin, Tx
    Posts
    730

    Posted On:
    12/19/2007 1:59pm


     Style: BJJ, Striking, TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Can someone photoshop from glowsticks and add some techno to those forms?
  10. dunlap is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
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    175

    Posted On:
    12/19/2007 2:04pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Justin I just showed you how to get int touch with who YOU really are. Anything I got out of you was really in there to begin with. Working with you has allways been an honor and a pleasure. The only thing you owe me is what you are doing right now -Try to stop people from being hurt or manipulated and stand up for what is right

    As to these Pokelan people other than Sam (you have told me he has always done right by you and doesn't drink the Kool aid) what they are doing to people is shamefull. The focus is on manipulating damaged souls for their own end. Brainwashing people and stealing their hope for financial reward in my mind is about as low as you can get.

    The reason I am so happy you have decided to get involved and add your input is I saw how disillutioned you were and i am proud of you for taking this stand. You were obviously paying more attention to me tha just how to stomp on someone
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