Poekoelan

JP · Posted On: 12/19/2007 9:25am

To Phil: Thank you. The things you’ve taught me about being a man and being a fighter are lessons that will stick with me for the rest of my life. I owe you a lot and I’m grateful for the place you provide for people at Advanced Fighting Systems. I’m just sorry I can’t train with you more regularly.

Phil coached me through all three of my fights. He dragged me through and never let me quit and that means the world to me that somebody wouldn’t let me give up or give up on myself. Thanks Phil for your support.

Sam: The things I learned training with you made me more human and while we might debate about cuntao, there’s nothing else. Thanks for the changes you brought about in my life, I was pretty much a shell of a person and you and your wife pulled me through some of the worst **** I’ve ever dealt with. So thank you for that.Also, for giving me a home and a place to go to in that school, making me feel like I was part of something good. Even when it got bad.

Oh boy.

Here we go. Looks like these folks did this to themselves with the youtube post. My predicition is that these don’t stay up terribly long once Barbara Niggel has seen them and/or the ridicule that they’re gonna draw.

Those videos are from the Tacomo branch of the system. Its run by a second degree black belt who I don’t know very well. I have to applaud their efforts partially, she has seen some of the holes in the system, for instance teaching knife defense when you don’t teach any kind of effective weapon work, let alone knives. And it looks like she’s trying.

Look, let me just end the rumors.

They can’t fight. Oh sure, they can fight a little but years of non-contact and pressure tested fighting has leached out the important things you learn from hard-contact sparring. I don’t believe that there’s anything wrong with the system itself, but its training philosophy has turned into something deeply flawed.

Its become a fully dead system from a training perspective.

I agree with kuntaosilat guy’s assessment of indonesian arts. For myself, I’ve never seen really good indonesian martial arts for myself and I’d love to because I love the martial arts of south east asia that I’ve seen. I’d just love to see them made effective again. I’d love nothing more to find somebody to prove me wrong on this.

To answer her other question the **** about the ouija board is unfortunately, completely true. I’ve witnessed it first hand. I’ve seen her use it to control people’s lives and claim that she’s in direct contact with her Willy Wetzel. I’ve seen her treat the board and the utterances from it, which I believe are just her delusions, with a kind of messianic force. She treats Willy’s “word” as law. For myself this kind of behavior doesn’t jive with what I’ve heard, even from her, of Wetzel. He sounded like a lot of things, a man, a fighter and a soldier. He doesn’t sound like a mystic with christ-like leanings. His approach to teaching always sounded pretty traditional to me and fairly devoid of bullshit.

But he left without designating an heir, and his end was tragic, he died fighting with one of his sons over a dispute over a tax-return. And in the struggle his son killed him. I’m not blaming anybody in that one. His son was a vietnam veteran and the father was a soldier and a killer himself. These two fight I don’t see a positive outcome. Period.

But I would like to leave Wetzel alone. He never did anything to me. And I’d like to let his name rest, there’s enough controversy in the indo-martial arts community as it is over this.

I believe that Barbara used the board to deflect her more bizarre and meglomaniacal requests. It also helps that a great deal of the people drawn to her and her system often tend to be a little damaged. Its a surrogate family and people with healthy families don’t usually seek surrogate ones. Just the way it is.

But yes. The board’s true.

As for the lesbian mafia comment? How does that have any bearing on bullshido? Grow up.

The ground fighting system taught by barbara niggel is fine I think for fighting people who can’t grapple or fight on the ground at all. It fits with other physical aspects of the system. But against a grappler? No dice.

Two of Barbara’s top fighters from her group of top students and black-belts have both fought mid-level grapplers who are coached by a guy who regularly has his guys fighting is Massachuesetts, and who I will not name, you’re just gonna have to take my word. Anyway, they lost. Bad.

Here’s the worst part of that though. Barbara Niggel yelled at them for losing and for being bad fighters when she sent them into the fight fully un-prepared for the eventuality of fighting a grappler. She would yell about “stop playing their game” and “don’t let them get you on the ground” but never once did she offer advice for how to do that. Because she doesn’t know.

There’s no grappling in Tulen. Somebody who says different is lying. They can’t fight against somebody with any kind of training.

When I left that school and started to look elsewhere for training I sparred with Ray Pina who is or has been a member of this board. He fighting regularly in the MMA scene. But at this point Ray was gearing up for his first fight, and had been training for MMA for around 4 months. He and I sparred. I used what I had learned.

He beat the **** out of me. And I’ve never been so grateful in my life. What convinced me about the training methods of Barbara’s system is this: Ray didn’t kick my ass in some spectacular, technical fashion. He knocked me on my ass and pounded me out while sitting on my chest. His aggression was what I was most un-prepared for. The lack of hard sparring in Barbara’s system creates a fighter unused to somebody who actually wants to beat their ass. As I was.

More later. Any other questions?

JP · Posted On: 12/19/2007 9:30am

Originally Posted by Ronin.74

Captain Sensilble has opened Pandora's box on this one. There are a ton of vids posted by someone listed as poekoelantacoma. Some real gems in there
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Why does everything they do look like extradorinarily crappy CMA or poorly done Krotty (in some cases)

This was also posted by the same youtube user
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG-wQnPWwiI

Is this guy also part of Poekoelan or is he just a friend of the youtuber? Anyone?

So, basically, these top videos aren't the best or most graceful examples of tulen forms but that 's the basic idea. The bottom video is just grappling and he didn't learn that in Tulen. Period.

**tiger313** · Posted On: 12/19/2007 9:45am

Once again. ditto what Justin said.
Justine in Tacoma is a friend of mine and from what I understand has welcomed mma training into her school on some level. She seems to be finding her way out of the Niggel quagmire and I wish her the best of luck.
sam

**IndoChinese** · Posted On: 12/19/2007 10:07am

we try to stay out of the drama. it only makes the entire community look bad in the end.

well, that makes you guys the smartest of the indo bunch.

**IndoChinese** · Posted On: 12/19/2007 10:10am

should add to this that Barb Niggle is not the only PTTulen teacher or school owner. there are quite a few others, who have nothing to do with her.

PTT is all throughout NY, PA, and OH.

JP · Posted On: 12/19/2007 10:37am

Originally Posted by IndoChinese

should add to this that Barb Niggle is not the only PTTulen teacher or school owner. there are quite a few others, who have nothing to do with her.

PTT is all throughout NY, PA, and OH.

To be precise, Niggel is the head of the Pttulen system. All the others are her students and under her direction. Poekoelan Tjimindie as a system tons of followers that have nothing to do with Tulen. But if its a Tulen school, than its hers. Period. You can't seperate one of them from the other. They all report and pay dues to Niggel.

And yes, stay out of the drama. I agree. I don't have much interest in it either. But lineages and things are of no real interest to me. Either your shits real or its not. Her's is not. That's my beef with her. That and the way she treats some of her students.

**Drunken Bear** · Posted On: 12/19/2007 12:09pm

Well the videos that Ronin.74 posted sure got taken down in a hurry.

**Lord Of Chaos** · Posted On: 12/19/2007 12:33pm

Originally Posted by JP

His aggression was what I was most un-prepared for. The lack of hard sparring in Barbara’s system creates a fighter unused to somebody who actually wants to beat their ass. As I was.

THAT is EXACTLY why a lot of tma's suck ass, and precisely why i agree with mma types on here many times when they rag on them. fancy shmancy techniques without any intent, power, ahhhh screw it- any "fighting" that is not trained VIOLENTLY is completely ineffective no matter what it is. end of story. any sparring i did in silat often degenerated into sloppy brawling when it was really "on", making me question the value of most fancy technical techniques that only seem to work on non- resisting opponents at half speed....

**7thSamurai** · Posted On: 12/19/2007 12:59pm

Can someone photoshop from glowsticks and add some techno to those forms?

**dunlap** · Posted On: 12/19/2007 1:04pm

Justin I just showed you how to get int touch with who YOU really are. Anything I got out of you was really in there to begin with. Working with you has allways been an honor and a pleasure. The only thing you owe me is what you are doing right now -Try to stop people from being hurt or manipulated and stand up for what is right

As to these Pokelan people other than Sam (you have told me he has always done right by you and doesn't drink the Kool aid) what they are doing to people is shamefull. The focus is on manipulating damaged souls for their own end. Brainwashing people and stealing their hope for financial reward in my mind is about as low as you can get.

The reason I am so happy you have decided to get involved and add your input is I saw how disillutioned you were and i am proud of you for taking this stand. You were obviously paying more attention to me tha just how to stomp on someone