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  1. Zendetta is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    12/18/2007 8:58pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: MMA, functional JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JP
    You're near Studio Naga in Oakland. Yes. It is. And they do.
    Bingo. My superficial impression was that they were being run by the Lesbian Mafia. Any comment?
    "You know what I like about you, William? You like guns AND meditation."
  2. Lord Of Chaos is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    12/18/2007 9:28pm


     Style: pentjak silat/ kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JP
    This system, like many Poekoelan systems, gets shortened to this term. As part of an overall name of a system its fine. That being said, the "oe" is usually indicitave of a more dutch influence, whereas the "u" in its place usually is the anglicazation (spelling?) of the indonesian word.

    There are dozens of systems that include Poekoelan/pukulan as part of their names. Did you do the one mentioned here or another? Because they aren't ALL bullshit, just this one being talked about in THIS thread.

    i did amerindo self defense, which has aspects of tjimande, mustika kweetang and pukulan in it. add a dash of gulat (indian wrestling) for good measure.

    i've seen willy wetzel's stuff before. looks a lot different than most silat i;ve seen, and actually seems to resemble chinese kung fu more than anything else. nothing wrong with that, it just isn't really my bag. my system was more combative muay thai/ jj looking stuff.
  3. IndoChinese is offline

    AKAKTK

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    angola, ny
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    Posted On:
    12/18/2007 10:46pm


     Style: Liu Seong Gung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    'pukul' is a dutch slang like someone mention before. basically refers to a striking art, or 'to hit'. so there are lots of 'pukulans', not just Tjimande Tulen. that in particular is Willie Wetzel's art.

    i have heard that Barb Niggle uses an Oiuja (sp?) to communicate with Willie's spirit...

    the culture of indonesian arts is even more mystical than cma. and this type of thing is very common in those arts. stories like you wouldnt believe (and you shouldnt). they have the ilmu or tenaga dalem which is sort of like teh chi. thing is when you take stuff like that out of context(indonesian culture) and transplant it over here, you get the wildest imaginings as a result.

    a big part of it, the bs if you will, is the use of trance states. and of course in a trance state, suggestion is an excellent tool.

    all the stuff JP posted sounds par for the course for alot of what i have been exposed to. though not in that particular line, it is only a hop, skip, and a jump away, culturally speaking.

    ime, they call themselves pukulan, kuntao, or silat and you dont leave the class wiped out from hard training, and bruised from contact then they are just playing you.

    and if they start talking mystical ****, ask them to show you, and if not, ask why.

    *disclaimer....in these arts, just because they say some off the wall **** DOES NOT mean they cannot fight or have BS ma, it just means their teacher probably told them all kinds of crazy stories, and they most likely added to it anyways. however, if they can have skills, they should have no qualms about showing you. of course, to old schoolers that means you want to challenge them. so proceed with caution unless you are a real bad ass or something.

    plus alot of dutch indo ma has changed since it was brought to america. it is sort of a special case, owing that the ma transplant occured as a result of the indonesian independance war, and that was a one time deal. and to a great extent all the original dutch indo teachers all knew each other. and the kuntaosilat political world is the epitome of backstabbing. most every lineage i can think of is jacked up in some way, except maybe the amerindo system. dont recall ever hearing to much drama from their end, unless i just missed it.

    my advice, unless it is a good school, with straight talk and lots of contact, avoid indonesian ma like the plague.

    and i'm a kuntaosilat'er.
  4. dunlap is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/18/2007 11:31pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Justin I just wanted to say publicly I am proud of you for doing this I know it has been a long time coming. You have grown a lot since I first met you.

    As a teacher and friend of justin's I would like to say these people are terrible and i think have a very negative effect on people with their brainwashing.
  5. tiger313 is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2007 12:31am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: poekoelan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Greetings from Sam Duffy

    Dear Bullshido community,
    Firstly I would like to publicly support and endorse my good friend Justin Porter. Everything he posted is true. We have an ongoing debate about cun tao training but I agree for the most part about his view and respect his opinions. His introducing me to the world of mma opened my eyes about many things and helped me navigate my way out of the darkness of cult/traditional martial arts.
    Willy Wetzel was a complicated man who I believe brought a beautiful martial art from his homeland when he was forced to leave. What Niggel has done with it is disgraceful.
    I continue to train the parts of this style that ring true to me and have cut out what was little more the new age scam artistry.
    I am no longer so much interested in hard sparring. The original forms have great benefit as far as a daily practice for strength and flexibility. The animal movements are fun and appeal to me as an artist. The cuntao is mostly fairly sound ju-jitsu which I have used effectively working in a psych hospital to humanely restrain patients and a few times in real life stiuations. Personally I believe there is a great distance between any martial training and real life combat from the various acts of violence I have witnessed at first hand. Pure meanness and cunning tend to win out I have noticed. Any debate is largely academic but I appplaud the mma community for keeping it real in training and the ring. I pray the people who think dancing around like an animal will deter or confuse a dedicated opponent never learn the cold reality of that fallacy.
    I continue to teach mostly forms and movement in NYC and have enhanced my own routine with old school weight lifting and yoga. I am easy to find and open to shed any light on the Tulen fallacy that I can.
    All the best,
    Sam Duffy
    samduffy@mac.com
  6. CaptainSensible is offline
    CaptainSensible's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2007 12:42am


     Style: Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ummm......check this out:

    "This is an example of movements from our ground fighting system in our style of Poekoelan (Indonesian Martial Arts)"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXY61-raodE
  7. IndoChinese is offline

    AKAKTK

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2007 1:14am


     Style: Liu Seong Gung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    that is supposed to be harimau, i guess, mixed with a tumbling drill. some of it looked like 'crawling', which is basically fighting with an extremely low stance, with your tailbone like six inches off the ground.

    indonesian 'groundfighting' is 'suspended' for the most part. they stay on two or three points and move very low to the ground. there are exceptions like leg scissors/traps, where you have your hips on the ground.
  8. Steve is offline
    Steve's Avatar

    The gift that keeps on giving

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2007 2:59am

    supporting member
     Style: On hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainSensible
    Ummm......check this out:

    "This is an example of movements from our ground fighting system in our style of Poekoelan (Indonesian Martial Arts)"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXY61-raodE
    Crap, WA state wins again.

    Don't forget the rest of her videos.

    Their MMA practice:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i6A_OTiZz4
    Last edited by Steve; 12/19/2007 3:01am at .
  9. Lord Of Chaos is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2007 7:09am


     Style: pentjak silat/ kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by IndoChinese
    'most every lineage i can think of is jacked up in some way, except maybe the amerindo system. dont recall ever hearing to much drama from their end, unless i just missed it.


    we try to stay out of the drama. it only makes the entire community look bad in the end.
  10. Ronin.74 is offline

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

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    Dec 2005
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    Posted On:
    12/19/2007 9:42am


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Captain Sensilble has opened Pandora's box on this one. There are a ton of vids posted by someone listed as poekoelantacoma. Some real gems in there

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8uNF5hdNxo

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDTbHLHpr4o

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47iZoVTAKCI

    Why does everything they do look like extradorinarily crappy CMA or poorly done Krotty (in some cases)

    This was also posted by the same youtube user
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG-wQnPWwiI

    Is this guy also part of Poekoelan or is he just a friend of the youtuber? Anyone?
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