1/11/2005 11:51pm, #11
- Join Date
- Jan 2005
- Kyokushin, Modern Arnis
Basically, it's a style that uses the animal styles of monkey, tiger, snake and crane. Teir "kuntao" class is for white belts and focuses on one trick pony defense moves known as "holds" which go from stupid to almost suicidal. One you go from white belt to white sash, you hit third phase where you learn the actual fighting. It really relies on forms and has become a haven for hippies and soccer moms. I'm currently studying Kuntao Silat, and boy, is it a breath of fresh air. The lady in the pic holding the pad is Janesa Kruse, One With Heart's head instructor. She's teaching a women's self defense course in the pic.
1/12/2005 11:03am, #12Originally Posted by Mox_Mox
you just dont understand, because you missed the uber secret: POEKOELAN BLACK BELT TECHNIQUE
He was punching him like the collective karmic debt he'd accrued was coming to collections, mostly on his face.
9/29/2006 3:10pm, #13
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
- Brooklyn, NY
- SAMBO, mma, jiujitsu
In searching Wikipedia......
Was poking around on Wikipedia and found this little nugget. I got here and searched to see if anybody had posted anything recent about this and here's an old thread. Looks like these guys posted a description in Wikipedia.
Here's the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poekoelan
And here's the article direct for those not wanting to bother.
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Poekoelan Tjimindie Tulen was founded by Mas Goeroe Agoeng Willy John Christopher Wetzel, a Dutch Indonesian man and ninth degree Golden Dragon black belt. Mas Goeroe Agoeng traveled throughout Indonesia studying many styles of Pentjat Silat and took the best parts of each to develop the style of Poekoelan Tjimindie Tulen. Mas Goeroe Agoeng brought the art to the U.S. in 1956. The first school to teach Mas Goeroe Agoeng’s style was opened in Lowellville, Ohio in 1973 by Mas Goeroe Barbara Niggel under the direct tutelage of Mas Goeroe Agoeng Willy Wetzel. Currently Barbara Niggel believes that she is in direct contact with the deceased Willy Wetzel and teaches seminars based upon these communications.
Poekoelan Tjimindie Tulen, headquartered in Massachusetts, is now under the direction of Mas Goeroe Agoeng’s direct heir, Mas Goeroe Barbara Niggel. Mas Goeroe Agoeng is the “Well” as he is the originator of the art, Mas Goeroe Barbara Niggel is the first bloodline or first river, and her students are second rivers and so on. There are now over 11 schools in the US and abroad that teach this art.
Poekoelan (Pu ku lan) is an Indonesian word, which means “series of blows with returning hands and feet;” Tjimindie means “beautiful flowing waters;” Tulen means “original.” Together, this describes the movement of this martial art, which flows gracefully and is used in both combat and healing. The art is symbolized by bamboo and a rose that has thorns to protect itself. These symbols are set upon a black background, which signify the secrets and mysteries of the art. An example of these secrets is that students are taught to believe that they can set paper on fire with their internal energy or "ilmoe".
The systems movements are of a nature akin to water and bamboo, fluid and circular, spiraling and continuous, graceful and whip-like. Movements are derived from four animals; the tiger, the crane, the monkey, and the snake. The use of these animals provide a set of dynamic dualities: soft/hard, fast/slow, small/large, fierce/playful, circular/angular and high/low. All of this is combined with a meditative, dance-like form, called the “crawl,” a movement that is completely unique to each practitioner.
9/29/2006 6:22pm, #14
I am no expert on silat but if their groundfighting is the tiger form that should be Harimau or pamacan which can be pretty nasty. Everything I know of cimande is second hand but it uses tons of forearms and they apply this liniment to their forearms to help heal the arms while they are being conditioned. It has some nastiness to it but I don't know anything about poekoelan itself.
It seems a bit suspect but I would like to see some of their players playing with contact.
9/29/2006 7:10pm, #15
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
- Brooklyn, NY
- SAMBO, mma, jiujitsu
I agree with you, but the communicating with the deceased bit, plus the setting paper on fire, just a little odd, no?
Also, here are the webpages that posted the Wiki article. It appears to be either an offshoot or directly linked with the school's main page.
9/29/2006 10:49pm, #16
- Join Date
- Sep 2004
- Krav / (Kick)Boxing / BJJ
I have an online friend who studied it as a TMA before taking up MMA at Team Quest.
They currently like MMA a lot more.
12/18/2007 1:55am, #17
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
- Portland, Oregon
- Poekoelan Tjimindie Tulen
Dojo Review: Poekoelan Tjimindie Tulen / Tulen Center
I joined this site largely to write this dojo review, after running across the comments above about One With Heart. I've trained at a companion school to One With Heart in St. Johns (Portland) called Tulen Center North for coming up on a a year and a half now.
What I've learned about Poekoelan Tjimindie Tulen (PTT) goes something like this (and any mistakes are my own, and unintentional):
- PTT traces through a teacher known within the art as Mas Goeroe Agoeng Willy Wetzel, through one of his first students, known within the art as Mas Goeroe Barbara Niggel. I'm aware there have been controversies about Willy Wetzel's lineage, and I truly couldn't care less. I've met Mas Goeroe Barbara. She's intense, and anyone who can build the system of schools she has, the way she has, is someone to be admired.
- There are 14 PTT schools worldwide, 3 of which are in Portland, Oregon. One With Heart is the largest of these 3, and is possibly the oldest and largest individual martial arts dojo/gym in the Pacific Northwest. It's size and longevity say a lot about Goeroe Janesa Kruse, its longtime director.
- New students begin in a program referred to as Cun Tao, during which you earn your white belt (after a few classes), and progress through white belt first and second stripe, in the process of learning 108 judo-like self defense holds/releases, a basic array of kicks and parries, a kick/strike form called Cun Tao Lunka (Lunka means "form"), and a strikes form called Pelejaron Poekoe.
- The focus in Cun Tao seems to be on getting out of your head, and into your body, learning to respond to particular types of attack through a basic vocabulary of defensive movement. Oh yeah, and learning to take a fall.
- If you're able to perform all 108 holds against live attackers (fellow students and instructors) in 6 minutes or less, and can perform your kicks, strikes, and form with basic competence, you're promoted to white sash.
- Once you've earned your white sash (took me 7 months, some learn faster) your training changes and you start attending classes called "third phase".
- Third phase training is more focused on forms and sparring, and less on holds, than Cun Tao, though holds are still practiced.
- Third phase ranks are: white sash, yellow sash, blue sash, green sash, brown sash, black belt (first through fifth stripe).
- To grossly generalize, each third phase rank promotion requires you to demonstrate that you've learned two new required standard forms for the rank, an extension to the strikes form, ten new required stances, growing proficiency in a chosen weapon form, growing proficiency with the standard kicking form, and a personal form developed on your own from what you've learned. During your promotion you'll also engage in a required number of full contact sparring matches (more at each rank, with fingertip pushups between each round).
- In short, the test for each successive rank is longer and more demanding, as it should be. A brown sash test lasts 24 hours, first degree black belt goes for 48 ...
- Controlled, full contact sparring practice begins with white sash, meaning about 6 to 8 months into your training. Defensive gear is used when appropriate, but we also have a school culture which wears bruises with some pride.
- I believe the fact the most senior living teacher of the art, Mas Goeroe Barbara Niggel, is a woman has an effect on the culture of the school. A large number of women are involved, and from personal observation, I believe some men find this threatening. There is also a very large kids program (which promotes more loosely, up to a point, but still demands a lot from a "kid" black belt). One of my most effective instructors just turned 17 years old, and earned his black belt a year ago. Dude knows his ****.
- There is an energetic/internal aspect to the art, and some focus on meditation practice, for those into such things.
- Like many martial arts, animal forms are used to categorize and describe various approaches to movement, strikes, and parries. Students are encouraged to explore each and focus on what works for them.
- In general, creativity and the exploration of personal style are encouraged. Much of the movement when sparring is very fluid ("crawling"), which some find weird and threatening, which seems part of the whole point of it. If you're busy thinking I look like a hippy-dancing freak, you're not thinking about the combine I'm about to land on your ass.
- A lot of students seem to be in it just for a focused workout in a positive, encouraging school culture. And, I've also met a number of students and instructors who appear ready and able to kick some serious ass, should they ever have the misfortune of needing to try.
From what I've seen by way of definition on this site, Poekoelan Tjiminidie Tulen as a martial art, and One With Heart and the Tulen Centers as schools, are not "McDojos" and are not "bullshido" by any stretch. The training is demanding - in several ways - and from all I can tell seems to be effective, also in several ways. Through my own mistakes, I've taken home a sprained rib, broken rib, and I don't know how many bruises. And each time I felt good about the experience, because someone respected me enough to "bring it to me" so I could learn to carry myself confidently in the body I've got. And it's working.
PTT isn't for everybody. Between the "crawling" fight form, and all the women and kids, it seems to alienate some macho types. And that's fine, one size does not fit all.
Oh, and yeah ... some of the women are really hot, if that's what you're looking for in a school ...
Last edited by Mas Leo; 12/18/2007 2:01am at .
12/18/2007 3:59am, #18
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
- West LA/SF Bay Area
- mozambique drill
What exactly is "Controlled Full-contact Sparring"? What defensive gear?
12/18/2007 4:24am, #19
Originally Posted by Mas Leo
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
Sorry, I know nothing of your style, but the above intrigued me. I am but a lowly Physical Education teacher, so maths isn't my strong point, but you have 60 stances in your style. 60. how does that work exactly. Are they all applicable to the full contact sparring you do, or are they just for the kata/form you have to make up
12/18/2007 12:38pm, #20
- Join Date
- Dec 2005
- CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD
Thanks for coming by and providing some first hand knowledge of your system. You have to understand that Bullshido is a website of skeptics. We very much adhere to the following ideas;
-Put up or shut up.
-Video or it didn't happen.
This is not to say that your claims about your art are all lies or deceptions. These ideas (and others) are just some of the methods we use to effectively weed out frauds to provide an accurate representation of the system and it's teachers.
We do occassionally have people who come on here with a personal agenda behind their posts regarding certain schools, in these cases the same rules apply. People with personal agendas will get called on it and will be asked to produce evidence to support their claims just as an instructor in any system would be asked to produce evidence to support theirs.
For example, I've never made any far fetched claims of any kind. But, even though I've been on the site for a couple of years and a poster in good standing, if I suddenly claimed some obscure rank or that I was a champion of some obscure tournament, I would be required to provide evidence proving such.
That being said, can you please provide Video of training sessions and sparring? Sparring videos would do wonders for your art's credibility. Please keep in mind demos of technique application on a compliant partner does not equal sparring.