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  1. jkreher is offline

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    Apr 2008
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    5

    Posted On:
    4/08/2008 11:46pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Pukulan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hi Chili Pepper - It was actually a really boring fight. Not one punch was thrown. Our student got taken down from a greco/roman clinch but he kept his cool and armbarred him. I am one of his teachers but don't take any credit for his fight anyway. The only credit I deserve is for bringing someone into my school that is a better grappler then I am so I and my students get those important skills and can become better martial artists. I have an MMA program (including BJJ) at my school taught by a certified MMA trainer. He prepared this student for the fight not me.

    My above post about the video clips was just pointing out poeple enjoy making comments about people and context they know nothing about. But that is what you get for participation in the internet (which I think is the greatest invention ever). The clips of me are me shawdow boxing (crawling) for over an hour to improve my cardio and flow. They are not meant to look like Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. I am a really good fighter actually and enjoy it but need a lot of improvement in submissions and weapons but I am working on it.
    Last edited by jkreher; 4/08/2008 11:51pm at .
  2. Ronin.74 is offline

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Posted On:
    4/09/2008 9:18am


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    jkreher,

    I'm glad you've stopped by to add some clarification regarding what was being viewed in the videos. Many of us here were perhaps a little too judgemental of your MMA clip, not knowing the level of the students involved. Now that we know that at that time they had only been there 3 months it gives us better perspective.

    It is also refreshing to hear that in an effort to improve the quality of your school you've started bringing in instructors from other styles to fill in the gaps. A lot of places would just simply take a seminar or two on the missing subject matter and then teach it claiming it was super secret advanced techniques that already existed in the system, it's good to hear that your not going that route.

    Even though your student's fight was boring we would still like to see the video. If it's only a few minutes there should be no issue in viewing. I could see not wanting to bother watching it if is was 30 mnutes or something, a few minutes is nothing though.

    You also stated that you have brought a certified MMA trainer into your gym. Could you please provide his name and whom he is certified under?

    Do you have any comments or information that you would like to add regarding the cultist like activities of other schools that are part of your organization? For example the learning of new material by the head of the system through telepathic communion with the deceased.

    Thnx
  3. JP is offline
    JP's Avatar

    It's all about the clinch. The clinch, I said.

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
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    2,290

    Posted On:
    4/09/2008 6:04pm

    supporting member
     Style: SAMBO, mma, jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think I mentioned this elsewhere in the thread, Justine, but if I didn't or if you missed it, I'll repeat it here.

    I admire very much what you've done. My approach has been to chuck out the baby and the bathwater, but if you still find value in what you do then thats all that matters.

    Its interested that Janesa allowed you to operate on your own. The option would simply not have worked for us, given how close we were to Barbara.

    You and I have met several times but never really spoke.

    I also admire what you're doing in terms of bringing in outside people to train your students, provided they are qualified. Likewise the weapons.

    As for other people's comments about the content of your youtube site, I'm not going to apologize for them. That's their view which you subject yourself to when you put your material out there for people to look at. But you know that.

    I don't find value in the forms anymore for my training. Thats a personal choice and it includes forms of all kinds. I just don't see the point I'd rather roll or spar.

    Keep doing what your doing, you're offering poekoelan students what I believe is the only open-minded, well rounded training of any of the schools.

    Have you brought any of your more fighting oriented students to tulen gatherings? I'd be curious to see how they reacted to what is a fairly touchy feely approach to sparring and training in general.
    Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
    and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    As far as possible, without surrender,
    be on good terms with all persons.
    Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
    and listen to others,
    even to the dull and ignorant;
    they too have their story.

    -excerpt of the poem called "Desiderata," by Max Ehrman, 1927.
  4. jkreher is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/10/2008 3:06am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Pukulan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks to JP and Ronin for responding I enjoy open discussion and appreciate your comments. Lots to say so forgive how long this is.

    Ronin -Here is the website for www.myspace.com/tacomamma. But our MMA coach doesn't know anything about these people or about any drama so please leave him out of it. I initially asked him to do privates with me so I could improve my grappling skills. Now he is a dear friend and has an MMA program at the school. The MMA program is his baby but I train with him, help promote the team, and encourage my students to participate in his no-gi grappling class. I teach people that want a traditional style, he teaches people that just like to bang and roll around. Like you Justin he left a strict traditional background and now has no interest in that.

    I love MMA because every technique in it is effective at least against someone in your weight class in a full contact fight. You may take a different approach in a street fight (i.e. not going to the ground to set up a complicated armbar) but the training is really worthwhile. But I appreciate the beauty of forms and traditional arts so the energy of what you are doing isn't always about breaking someone. In my mind Poekoelan is such a fluid art I can't imagine any Poekoelan teacher not advocating learning from what is out there. It doesn't have to change the core aesthetic of the style at all. Anyway, I do my own thing but would also respect others right to do something different.

    On the cult-like aspect -My teachers in Seattle never ran their school in an even remotely cult like way. They are all the most decent and fair people I know and weren't taking orders from anyone or towing anyone's line. They ran things their way but wanted to stay on good terms with the organization while at the same time voicing disagreements when necessary.

    I do not know Barbara Niggel personally other then attending a few seminars. Heard about everything on this forum but have also heard her say a lot of reasonable things like she doesn't expect everyone to believe what she believes and Poekoelan isn't supposed to be like a religion. I am going to get into trouble for saying this but the ouija board thing she does is no more or less valid then believing in angels and virgin births which billions of people do. My mom thinks visualizing a good parking space will help one appear. I think any religion that says other people who don't believe in what you believe are going to burn in hellfire for eternity is a cult which includes most sects of Christianity a very mainstream religion. But that is just me, I am a skeptic. Now if woo woo stuff is being used to manipulate people that is not cool. But I can't comment on anything I haven't seen. Some of my favorite people were from the New York school and I was sad when they left. Sam always offered to help give me advice, his wife has an awesome sense of humor, and I remember what a great athlete you are Justin. I think it is ridiculous for teachers to "berate" grown adults so if that was going on...not cool.

    I know Goeroe J better. I wrote her a pretty harsh email about my perception of things and was going to leave. I wont go into detail about our conversation because I should respect her privacy but she was completely reasonable, civil, and supportive towards me and she was being sincere. I look at the world in a very different way then she does. She is a strong personality and I don't doubt she has made strong opinions heard and raised her voice at times. But I spent many self defense training sessions with her and she always was sincere in hearing student input. She does a lot of anti-violence work in the community. You can criticize her intensity, her beliefs, her loyalty to her style, or anything else. But I would ask anyone on this forum...Please don't try to imply she is some crazed controlling cult leader or a bad person. Speaking from my experience I would consider that characterization of her to be really cruel and a one sided look at a very complicated person with good intentions. She just wants to be left alone to do her thing and is fine with people leaving if it is not for them.

    Thanks again for letting me add my 2 cents.
    Last edited by jkreher; 4/16/2008 7:13pm at .
  5. stonetiger is offline

    Featherweight

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    Feb 2008
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    13

    Posted On:
    5/10/2008 10:26am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Hebei Xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My teacher and I went to visit that school. My teacher has learned from Oom Jim Ingram for over 40 years, and is one of the nastiest fighters I have ever met, and I trained MMA for a bit, no slam to them at all. We sat and watched a beginning class that was pure exercise and breakfalls, then they all hopped up and swept the floor and left. Kind of an amazing thing, people paying to learn to fight, and they learn Japanese judo falling. And BTW, silat has existed much longer than most other forms of Asian martial arts, but they are told by Janesa that its a mix of kung fu and Japanese arts with silat, which is total crap. So is the lineage from Willy, Janese didn't even know how Willy died, much less where the oldest son is. All I saw was a bunch of rolling around acting like monkeys with no real application involved. Also, they don't know the language right, everyone in that school is called Mas, which means Mr. The women are called Mas too, instead of being called Mrs or Ms, and kids have the title of Pendekar, which to them means just professional, nothing more (direct quote from student). Sorry to post with so much anger here, but I was so pissed to see how they are stealing from people who don't know better, I actually got in trouble a bit when I asked my teacher if I could roll the instructor in the middle of class! LOL Oh well, I know I'm posting kind of late as well, hope everyone has a great day!
  6. legoman60 is offline

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    Apr 2008
    Location
    Portland, OR
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    5

    Posted On:
    9/13/2008 3:24pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Personal Training

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Honestly, I think this art was pure once. I trained PTT for about two years before I found this thread. Read everything that is posted here caused me to srated doubting what they were teaching me. Then, one night in class "Goeroe" Janeisa (spelling?) told me one think that made me lose all respect I once had for her ability to teach. I had just learned a new technique from her (as did everyone else in the class) and she started pushing us to move faster. Eventually she said "You train slow, you fight slow." (Incoming speech about why that quote is untrue) Although that may be true in some respects, if you just learned something then it is better to take the movements slowly and let the speed come after your accuacy has become good. If you try moving as fast as you can as soon as you can then your accuacy becomes nothing, and you can not defeat an opponite you can not hit. That class was the last night I ever trained PTT, if someone with that kind of thinking can make it that high in the ranks then it is not an art for me.
  7. tellner is offline

    Registered Member

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    Location
    Orygun
    Posts
    151

    Posted On:
    9/14/2008 2:25pm


     Style: Silat

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've never met a good teacher who pushed people to do things as fast as possible as soon as possible. Not martial arts, carpentry, not swimming, not cooking, not knot-tying. First you get the gross movements. Then you get the fine movements. Then you do it until you're familiar with it and can do it smoothly. Then you speed it up. Any other way means you end up with crappy technique whether it's passing the guard or making an omelet.
  8. jkreher is offline

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    Apr 2008
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    Posted On:
    9/29/2008 4:06pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Pukulan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Speed is essential to apply in a real self defense situation so I understand why a teacher would want to stress speed of attack. But I do agree repetitive fast slop = engrained slop.

    Also I used to be part of the Tulen organization but left to pursue other points of view to add to the style I teach. I still teach Poekoelan but learn from teachers from other disciplines so I can teach the most well rounded approach I can. legoman60 did you continue training in another style?
  9. legoman60 is offline

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    Apr 2008
    Location
    Portland, OR
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    Posted On:
    10/14/2008 4:46am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Personal Training

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Not as of yet no, I've been looking at a Tai kwon Do school on 29th and belmont in Portland Oregon though. It also has a branch at the St. Johns community center. Here is their website: http://taekwondo-pdx.com/home.html My friend is a 1st dan there and i was hopping to train a bit under him. Anyone know the school at all? Also if there is anyone in the portland area who teaches Poekoelan without all the crap I'd like to hear from you. My e-mail is legoman60(at)hotmail.com
  10. Jim_Jude is offline
    Jim_Jude's Avatar

    Shime Waza Test Dummy

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    Sep 2006
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    3,555

    Posted On:
    10/14/2008 9:56am

    Join us... or die
     Style: StrikeyGrappling & WW2-fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by legoman60
    Not as of yet no, I've been looking at a Tai kwon Do school on 29th and belmont in Portland Oregon though. It also has a branch at the St. Johns community center. Here is their website: http://taekwondo-pdx.com/home.html My friend is a 1st dan there and i was hopping to train a bit under him. Anyone know the school at all? Also if there is anyone in the portland area who teaches Poekoelan without all the crap I'd like to hear from you. My e-mail is legoman60(at)hotmail.com
    Here's a decent link for Silat/Pukulan groups:
    http://www.martialhub.com/indonesia/indonesia.html

    Also, if you're in Portland, contact Todd Ellner (ribbit@speakeasy.net)
    He's a top student of Pencak Silat Guru Steven Plinck of WA (Formerly THE top student of Paul deThouars. You know what I'm talking about if you're familiar with deThouars family politics here in the U.S.)
    Guru Plinck is, regardless, VERY VERY GOOD. Check 'em out.
    Guru Plinck's site (http://www.pencaksilat.com) seems to be down right now, I don't know why.
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney

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