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  1. JP is offline
    JP's Avatar

    It's all about the clinch. The clinch, I said.

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    2,290

    Posted On:
    1/04/2008 3:41pm

    supporting member
     Style: SAMBO, mma, jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SFGOON
    Can't we all agree that this martial art sucks and just move on? It has all the earmarks of crap, the least of which is not the outlandish uniforms worn, and the invocations of honor and respect, which are always a subtle ad hominum method of self aggrandizement.
    Yeah. We can. I kept the thread going because in the course of it, I connected with a couple of silat people who aren't total fucking morons, and I saw the potential to spare somebody (leo) a ton of idiocy. Whether or not I succeed is debatable. Just trying to get clear with something, and now I have and I'm done. That cool with you?
    Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
    and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    As far as possible, without surrender,
    be on good terms with all persons.
    Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
    and listen to others,
    even to the dull and ignorant;
    they too have their story.

    -excerpt of the poem called "Desiderata," by Max Ehrman, 1927.
  2. fghtrgirl is offline

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    Jun 2006
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    1

    Posted On:
    1/15/2008 6:30pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    JP,
    Tried to PM you, but the system isn't allowing me to, so I'll keep this short since it's public.
    Thank you for having the courage to come forward with your experiences. I can back up that 100% of what you have said here is true. I could contribute my own stories, but they just mirror your own. It's frustrating because there are some good things about PTT and some good people involved in the art, but the things you mention here all made it impossible for me to continue to train in that art.
    Be well.
  3. JP is offline
    JP's Avatar

    It's all about the clinch. The clinch, I said.

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    2,290

    Posted On:
    1/15/2008 8:04pm

    supporting member
     Style: SAMBO, mma, jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by fghtrgirl
    JP,
    Tried to PM you, but the system isn't allowing me to, so I'll keep this short since it's public.
    Thank you for having the courage to come forward with your experiences. I can back up that 100% of what you have said here is true. I could contribute my own stories, but they just mirror your own. It's frustrating because there are some good things about PTT and some good people involved in the art, but the things you mention here all made it impossible for me to continue to train in that art.
    Be well.

    onesearch@gmail.com

    Drop me a line.
    Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
    and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    As far as possible, without surrender,
    be on good terms with all persons.
    Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
    and listen to others,
    even to the dull and ignorant;
    they too have their story.

    -excerpt of the poem called "Desiderata," by Max Ehrman, 1927.
  4. hat0 is offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    1

    Posted On:
    2/27/2008 12:40pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Poekoelan Tjimindie

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Leo, are you still there?

    Leo, take it from someone else (namely, me) who spent several years practicing at one with heart (before there were all the different schools in the area)--get away. Get out fast.

    Actually, first, try and dig up the willy week article about poekoelan. If you can't find it from someone there, or if they brush it off as outsider ignorance, head on over to the willamette week archives and try and find it. The short version is: way back in the early 90s, someone spotted the "earmarks of a cult" in that school and did an article. The article is much tamer than JP's posts here, as things weren't nearly so woo-woo back then, but it's still a "forbidden" item around there.

    Ask about how the "matjanan" system was learned by Barbara (hint: entirely by telepathy). If you're OK with that answer, then yay.

    Think about how much time the upper ranks spend at the school, teaching poekoelan or aerobic kickboxing or doing odd jobs. Reflect on whether or not it's something you want, for _that style_ to consume your life. And think about the money.


    Last, if you do in fact want something with a heavy "spiritual" angle, go to church. They'll be a lot more up front about the rituals and ceremonies.
  5. Jim_Jude is offline
    Jim_Jude's Avatar

    Shime Waza Test Dummy

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    SoCal
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    3,555

    Posted On:
    3/01/2008 1:55am

    Join us... or die
     Style: StrikeyGrappling & WW2-fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JP
    See above. Those guys have a proven training method and they go hard when they have to. Also, I'm willing to bet you in their early training they were tested with hard contact to see if they would break under it. But either way, the point is, in a setting like that, I wouldn't be worried about their training. Those guys get in the ring and put it on the line and they have a very effective and efficient product. But you take the same model and apply it to say, a wing-chun or a ninjitsu school and not include any kind of sparring with contact and you're gonna probuce fighters who can't respond under pressure with what they learn. Period. I know this because I've been in the situation and seen its truth.
    Gotta throw my two cents in here. Sport fighting can't really be compared to SD or Military training. When you're training in the military, yes, you train all out, but you aren't going into combat tomorrow (odds are). Military units that are "waiting for the balloon to go up", so to speak, don't train. It's down time. You can't risk injuries because you have to be ready to go RIGHT NOW, not nursing a sprained ankle or wrist.

    For us civilians, we have to find a balance, where we can make gains but still be prepared for whatever. An injury can be such a simple thing, a few days or weeks and it's over. It cuts into training time & may affect work or school (writing/typing term papers with a sprained wrist or a cast is a bitch).
    However... limping down the street, at night, on your way home after a long week of work, can really make you a target. I see this as similar to some of the PT trainers out there that say "Don't go over 80%" in training, whether it be reps or max strength. That way, the recovery time is quicker, you're not "training to failure" all the time.
    Full Contact / NHB sparring is much the same. In a situation like that, you really aren't learning anything. You learn more in a low- to mid-stress environment. Test yourself occasionally, of course, and use contact frequently, but not constantly. You're not like a car, where you can just replace a damaged part. We have to take care of our "Ultimate Weapons"...

    ****EDIT: Gotta Amend This. You can "learn" a lot of things through hard contact. One of the best things that you learn is what you can really do. You also learn how adrenal flush feels & that's more like conditioning. You are able to handle it better as time goes on, and sometimes it doesn't even kick in much after awhile. That point can be dangerous though, on a safety point and from a psych level. If you don't recognize a situation as truly dangerous, you might engage when it would actually be best to run. Also, you don't really want to be desensitized to the point where you can't really function in society. That's something that our soldiers and some fighters have to deal with, depending on the style or geography.
    Last edited by Jim_Jude; 3/01/2008 2:05am at .
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney
  6. rena is offline

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    Mar 2008
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    1

    Posted On:
    3/22/2008 4:43pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I am sadden to read all of this...yes I read all 13 pages to get here...my daughters took their first class here on the Cape today and really enjoyed mas Kelly as their teacher. I have to say she is wonderful with children if nothing else. I was truly looking for a non spiritual MA for my girls to learn self-defense. The whole occult goings on really has me bothered, and needless to say they won't attend another class. Barbara Niggell just bought the gym I attend in Hyannis, MA and it is now part of the Willy's Gyms on the Cape. Truly saddens me...I think I need to find a new gym too...good thing I only bought a three month trial membership...
  7. johnny3443 is offline
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    Registered Member

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    Seattle/ Georgetown
    Posts
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    Posted On:
    3/23/2008 9:41am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's good to see that you went and did some research on the school that you and your girls are getting involved in. Hopefully one or more of our members could point you in the right direction regrading a martial arts school and what you are looking to get from martial arts in general. My I suggest making an intro in the newbietown forum. You may very well get some useful guidance there. Good luck in the future and welcome to bullshido. -john

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=64
  8. SBG-ape is offline

    Registered Member

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    Aug 2007
    Posts
    499

    Posted On:
    3/23/2008 10:20am


     Style: Jiu-jitsu & HEMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by rena
    I am sadden to read all of this...yes I read all 13 pages to get here...my daughters took their first class here on the Cape today and really enjoyed mas Kelly as their teacher. I have to say she is wonderful with children if nothing else. I was truly looking for a non spiritual MA for my girls to learn self-defense. The whole occult goings on really has me bothered, and needless to say they won't attend another class. Barbara Niggell just bought the gym I attend in Hyannis, MA and it is now part of the Willy's Gyms on the Cape. Truly saddens me...I think I need to find a new gym too...good thing I only bought a three month trial membership...
    I don't know if they have kids' classes or not, but there's a gym out there called Nexus martial arts; it's a Straight Blast Gym affiliate.
  9. jkreher is offline

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    5

    Posted On:
    4/07/2008 11:50pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Pukulan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Poekoelan Videos Tacoma

    "Captain Sensilble has opened Pandora's box on this one. There are a ton of vids posted by someone listed as poekoelantacoma. Some real gems in there

    Why does everything they do look like extradorinarily crappy CMA or poorly done Krotty (in some cases)"

    To CaptainSensible, Ronin, and Steve from Poekoelan player in Tacoma

    Hi, I am the person who posted the videos you are making fun of. My name is Justine and I teach martial arts in Tacoma. I thought I disabled the imbed feature on my Youtube account so Joe Public wouldn't be able to blather on cluelessly or rudely about our clips but I need to go back and check that. No hard feelings though as that is what you get when you put things on the internet. The videos are just me and some of my students messing around and are posted for our own entertainment. For example the "MMA" clip you pictured above to make fun of is mostly of students who have been training less then three months. And the last clip on the bottom...it is a Brazilian jiu jitsu/submission wrestling tournament where people wrestle and grapple for points. It is not "Krotty" or CMA. It is white belt level students practicing submissions, a worthwhile thing for any martial artist to practice to add to their toolbox. That student is an 18 year old kid and that is his first grappling competition. 3 months later and after only 6 months of training he tapped out a much more experienced fighter in a full contact MMA match in under 1 1/2 minutes. I am just pointing out the kid you are making fun of is actually extremely talented. The other clips are spontaneous movement for strength building, cardio, and practicing dynamic movement standing or gounded. It is a more fun and useful way to work out then say jogging or pushups. I believe you get good at fighting by FIGHTING (and at times with full contact if you want to be a teacher) not just doing forms. But forms have there place. And our style can't be compared to "Krotty" as it is a much softer style.

    About me
    I teach Poekoelan Tjimindie Tulen but train in other things as well. I trained under really cool teachers in Seattle...it wasn't in anyway cult-like at all and I have never taken any kind of mysticism or hierarchy seriously though I respect other peoples ways of looking at the world. I run my school on my own terms and have had the head instructor in Portland tell me she was fine with that which is why I am still affiliated with them. If that changes my affiliation will stop. She has so far treated me completely respectfully and I wouldn't diss anyone if they weren't here to defend themselves and tell their side. I was crushed when the NY school left. If they truly weren't treated well leaving was the right thing. I just can't speak to things that I haven't witnessed directly.

    I am currently focusing on wrestling and grappling and do privates with one of the best weapons guys in the state who used to be a special forces trainer. These are the areas I feel I need to work on and add to my fighting style and how I teach. I only wish to give my students the best understanding of technique possible and expect them to test things for themselves and figure out what works best for them.

    Thanks for the opportunity to introduce myself

    -Peace
    Last edited by jkreher; 4/07/2008 11:52pm at . Reason: bad quotes
  10. Chili Pepper is online now
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    Senior Member

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    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    2,209

    Posted On:
    4/08/2008 8:25am


     Style: Siling Labuyo Arnis

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jkreher
    That student is an 18 year old kid and that is his first grappling competition. 3 months later and after only 6 months of training he tapped out a much more experienced fighter in a full contact MMA match in under 1 1/2 minutes.
    And would it be possible for you to post a video of that fight?
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