Count Dante

**Aesopian** · Posted On: 10/20/2004 11:38am

Ever with the Wikipedia links:

That first reference you found on Count Dante is actually a rip of the original Wikipedia article, which you can find here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Count_Dante

While writing the Ashida Kim article on Wikipedia, I spoke with the author of the Count Dante article about Ashida Kim's relationship to The Count. You can find our discussions here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:As..._POV_on_Ashida.

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:As...mself_up_a_lot

You can also find a ton of information I gathered about Ashida Kim on his article's Talk page, but hadn't yet formalized enough to place in the actual article on him:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ashida_Kim

I suppose this is as good a time as any to bring this up, since I'm posting all these links. If anyone is interested, please help me flesh out the article on Ashida Kim. I've done most of the work by myself, but could use some other help from others bullshidoka. If you're are not familiar with Wikipedia, let me be the first to tell you that you are required to write with a Nuetral Point of View, which is strict standard. What I don't need is a bunch of bullshidoka editting it to say "Ashida sucks." or "He's a liar". You and I know these are true, but that's not how Wikipedia works.

:XXpig: :5help:

**Ronin** · Posted On: 10/20/2004 11:40am

Look, Dante never fought, there is NO record of him ever fighting anyoneunder any terms.
The karate of his time had MANY fighters, he could have fought ANY of them, he didn't.
Dante was ALL about the money, period.
His BB from Trias was, at best, controversial.
He re-invented himself for commercial reasons, NOT for the advancement of his art.

If you think some joker who called himself "the deadliest man in the world", and never fought ANYONE that available to fight him, was somehow a "respectable" fellow, fine, go ahead and think that way.
On the side token, Asihda Kim and Frank Dux, should be on your list too.

**DCS** · Posted On: 10/21/2004 7:20am

You can find more about dante at

http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/show...threadid=11300

**Ronin** · Posted On: 10/21/2004 8:01am

What a load of crap, he faught eh?
WHO ??????
WHEN ???
WHERE ???

**shironinja** · Posted On: 10/21/2004 10:24am

Perhaps at one of the tournaments... unsure. Did locate more info on them though (thanks for your posts by the way Aesopian and DCS!!):

Tracing the complete history of 'Contact' Karate is almost as impossible as tracing the true origin of the Martial Arts themselves. Count Dante (aka John Keehan) was blackballed by the American Martial Arts community for allowing contact into tournament Karate.

source: http://www.mikemiles.com/sport/hokb/1950s.cfm

It was around 1961 that John Keehan, alias "Count Dante," began teaching karate in the midwest from his base dojo in Chicago, III. Keehan joined the USKA in 1961, at age 22, and was instrumental in helping Trias firmly entrench the USKA in the midwest, the association's strongest territory. He taught numerous students all the way to black belt, who opened their own schools and turned out respected students.

On July 28,1963, Robert Trias and John Keehan jointly hosted the 1st World Karate Tournament at the University of Chicago Fieldhouse, gathering contestants and officials from around the country. This was the first truly national American karate tournament and the forerunner of the many subsequent tournaments using and abusing the title of "World Championship." To date, this misnomer has been attached by various promoters to more than 20 North American karate tournaments. Clearly, it is an inexact title, since the participants do not come from all over the world.

Tournament titles were not an issue, however, during the embryonic stage. What is important is that Trias' event attracted most of the prominent American karateka. What took place in Chicago set a precedent for the emergence of large-scale, national-caliber competitions. This particular event was retitled the USKA Nationals in 1966, and in 1968 adopted its present title, the USKA Grand Nationals. It is one of the longest-running annual karate tournaments in America.

source: http://www.completemartialarts.com/i...canhistory.htm

(if site is down try google's cache) http://www.google.ca/search?q=cache:...t+record&hl=en

There also appears to be information on an altercation between rival dojos:

On the night of April 23, 1970, he took part in the infamous "dojo war" that ended in the brutal stabbing death of his friend and student, Jim Koncevic, at the Green Dragon's Black Cobra training hall in Chicago. The tragedy left a profound mark on Keehan until his death from bleeding ulcers in 1975.

source: http://www.completemartialarts.com/i...canhistory.htm

(if site is down try google's cache) http://www.google.ca/search?q=cache:...t+record&hl=en

I believe that would have made him 36 when he died by the way... interesting.

Recall here from the wikopedia article ... more on this "dojo war":

During this period, Dante, also admittedly was charged with attempted arson when he and an accomplice (while under the influence of alcohol) were arrested while taping dynamite caps to a Chicago dojo. Dante explained this as the result of a disagreement with the dojo's owner over payment for a tournament that Dante had arranged there. The various enmities culminated in the Dojo War incident of 1970 where Dante and some of his students went to a rival Dojo of the Green Cobra Hall to discuss a peaceful settlement. Upon entering the school, they were apparently attacked by the rival Dojo's students.

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Count_Dante

**Ronin** · Posted On: 10/21/2004 10:44am

If you can find even 1 of his contemporeries, including a memeber of the Trias "family" that have info on John actaully fighting anyone and the name of who he fought, that would be a great first step !!

When this guy decided to become "count Dante" and proclaim himself the "most dangerous man in the world" or whatever, he made a joke of what he was before that.
The cape, the cane, the whole act was silly then and is more so now.

**shironinja** · Posted On: 10/21/2004 10:47am

I'm looking.... if it's on the internet I can find it. Have now found lots of info to sort through!

Anyone interested ... check out this usernet thread from circa 1990 --> 1996...!

http://groups.google.ca/groups?hl=en...edu%26rnum%3D2

**Ronin** · Posted On: 10/21/2004 10:53am

Now, if you can find ANY record of him challenging ANYONE, that would be something.

**shironinja** · Posted On: 10/21/2004 10:53am

Haha... there are posts by a guy named "RONIN®" in 1999. Is that you? It has to be... lol. Some of these comments:

>i was there when Michele"Mouse" Krasnoo defeated Aquiar in a NHB challenge
>match-----neck crank

Really? She's a hottie! What was she wearing?

From: RONIN® (DELETEsvengali@golden.net)
Subject: Re: Count Dante
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Date: 1999/01/21