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  1. Aesopian is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/15/2004 12:29pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Russian Judo (Not Sambo per se)

    I'm wondering if anyone has any information on Russia judo, as a style of judo that is influenced by sambo.

    I was looking over judo books today on Amazon and I ran across Russian Judo (Masterclass Series) by Alexander Iatskevich. What caught my interest is some lines from its review. The reviewer obviously looks down on Russian (while he gives the book a good review for being informative).

    Here's what caught my attention in particular:

    Wonderful step-by-step instructions in black & white photography clearly demonstrated Sambo's over-emphasis on juji-gatame in Judo newaza, and Sambo's obfuscation of kumi-kata which overtly contributed to the IJF prohibition of "unorthodox grips". It appeared in the booklet RUSSIAN JUDO that the Sambo/Judo approach to kumi-kata is nothing more than simply entangling your opponent's arms then moving in to throw at the awkward moment.

    ...

    Clearly the booklet; RUSSIAN JUDO, demonstrated how clumsy Russian Sambo tactics were merely an act of desperation against the technically proficient Japanese Judoka; and that the basic Sambo counter-attacks were the only former Soviet way of acquiring a few low scoring 'koka' victories against classical Japanese Judo.
    Does anyone have any more info on what made Russian judo so different from traditional judo, such as the belt grips and armlocks? Is "Russian judo" just what they call sambo played within judo's rules?
  2. LLL is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/15/2004 1:37pm

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    I don't know much, but I'm pretty sure many/most guys in Russia fight in both Judo and Sambo, regardless of which is their original style & Judo was one of Sambo's main influences anyway...

    So, don't take this as a fact, but 'Is "Russian judo" just what they call sambo played within judo's rules?' = most likely yes.
  3. ImAlrdyNum is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/15/2004 2:02pm

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     Style: Judo & Sub Wrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    We have a guy from Russia in my Judo club, and Sambo is clearly a separate entity. He started out in Sambo before he took up Judo and then moved to the States. I don't know much about it, but according to him, it's more closely related to BJJ, as far as ne waza is concerned. Just from watching sambo matches there is definitely more emphasis on groundwork.

    I think what they mean by "Russian Judo" is just European Judo as a whole. They tend to stray from traditional grips, they favor the over the shoulder grip, they like leg grabs, i.e. double/single legs, etc. To me, European Judo in general more resembles wrestling than does Japanese/traditional Judo. Coming from a wrestling background, it's easier for me to play that way. It tends to look more aggressive and sloppy compared to the Asian Judo style, but I like it.
    Regardless, that doesn't change the fact that kickboxing is commonly known as fighting while grappling simply isn't. - Osiris
  4. Gezere is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/15/2004 10:27pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Russian judo" was intially looked down upon because the russian played with alot of unorthodox techniques at the times. They totally owned with juji gatame, even resurrectiong and profecting the flying armbar. They killed with kata guruma because that throw is found in every form of wrestling in the former Soveit Union. They introduced several belt grip throws that were not seen in Judo. Plus the russians felt it was a disgrace to loose in ground grappling, especially by armbar, since they were so proficient in it even before Sambo so they were feirce on the ground.

    ImAlrdyNum,

    Russian Judo is indeed European Judo. The Russians were the ones the change European Judo to the more wrestling type methods they use.

    I recommend this book, of course I have it, and also get recommend PICK UPS in the master class series as well.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  5. ImAlrdyNum is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/16/2004 4:35pm

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     Style: Judo & Sub Wrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ah, didn't know it started with the Russians. Learn something everyday.
    Regardless, that doesn't change the fact that kickboxing is commonly known as fighting while grappling simply isn't. - Osiris
  6. Aesopian is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/16/2004 9:09pm

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    Thanks for the data everyone.

    Asia,

    I found the Masterclass series for sale, and I'd love your recommendations on which ones I should get first, or if they are all so good that I should just drop the $265 for them all:

    http://www.hatashita.com/product.php?category_id=12

    Thanks.
  7. shinobi22 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/16/2004 11:21pm


     Style: VC gay love massage

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  8. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    10/17/2004 4:57am

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     Style: Kakutogi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Get them ALL!!!
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  9. Aesopian is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/18/2004 10:48am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the link, shinobi22.

    Asia:

    I'm all over it! Have any other books I should put on my "MUST BUY" list?
  10. Antagony is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/18/2004 11:12am

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    Cool thread.
    MY NAME IS ANTAGONY I SUCK AT COMBAT SPORTS KTHX

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    "Fag."
    "Well if that were true, then I'd really REALLY want to come train!"
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