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  1. shirkers1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/11/2004 2:08pm


     Style: northern mantis boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    El tejon, yes and if you read the thread it explains tht the drills were done real quick and sloppy. I just wanted to test out the host. I need to re do them in the light etc but I just haven't had the time. Watch the guy in the beanie and not the others. There is body power, the footwork shooting in, waste and arm. It's called short power and will put you on your ass. In the pull punch drills the pull and punch that he bridges is a fake, it draws his hand out. If you make contact great if not you have him drawn out for the trap. On my drills all of my strikes are well within hitting range. If you look close I've already struck and my hand returned to ready before the block. I agree that on the other vids that I didn't do and have nothing to do with are no where near the point of contact and I addressed this in my thread. These aren't even done at full speed, because the camera blurred too much and I was actually showing the guys how to do them.

    mididoctors read the thread. It explains the progression etc.

    whiteshark what?
    Last edited by shirkers1; 10/11/2004 2:15pm at .
  2. mididoctors is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/11/2004 2:16pm


     Style: Derek jones

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by shirkers1


    mididoctors read the thread. It explains the progression etc.
    that was more the technique.. does this drilling install some familarity that translates to being able to apply the techniques in a alive situation..

    addressing WS point here

    ie if you spar will you students use the skills learnt here?

    Boris
    london
  3. shirkers1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/11/2004 2:42pm


     Style: northern mantis boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Mididoctor, yes like I said it's in the thread. Here are some excerpts. Yes the guys use this in actual applications. You can't just look at a video and expect that to be all that the style has to offer or that that's all we do.

    If you look at me and not the other guys you see how the hand strikes are always within punching range. Using footwork and body positioning I could actually reach past the point of contact. That is important with all two-man drills, why do a drill if you're not within the fighting range the drill is drilling? There should be intent in the strikes. Both sides are getting the workout. The guy on defense should be blocking and moving his head etc when applicable. The slaps should be deep and fast striking then returning to ready position, if you over shoot the block you leave yourself open if you miss. Never anticipate, you could be anticipating the wrong movement. You react to what you are being fed by the other guy. After you get the basic movements you take away the meeting at the wrists and you do them with broken rhythm from a ready fighting position so you learn the timing and distancing better. Start off slow then work your way up just like any other drill. Why do them fast if you're doing them wrong. Applied application, correct distancing, proper mechanics and don’t choreograph too much. Broken rhythm will give you a better sense of timing and sensitivity.

    actually if you look close at my feet and the arm I'm pulling with that leg steps forward at an angle allowing the power of the waist and footwork to shoot the punch out. You could use the twist if you like sure, but I feel stepping forward gives you better leverage for the next tactic....
    After you have the basic movement down you should always be thinking of what you are going to do next, what opening you've created. Being agressive and never stopping with the attack.

    This can be accomplished simply by the rolling of the hips with the footwork, example you've twisted the hips one way naturally you un twist for the next tactic. I don't know if I'm explaining this right so you can understand. But if you strike down you can go right back up with a strike, if you strike left you can go right back to the right with a strike. Whether it's hook line or straight line.

    I’m probably preaching to the choir here, but another small and important detail in the drills. Involving the pull punch drills, or when doing any type of drill involving the grab with the diou or eagle claw make sure you’re not just going through the motions. Grab with force. How many times have you been doing this and the other guys was sweaty and you slip right off when you pull? That is because the timing of the grab and pull was off as well as not applying the proper “squeeze” with the grab. These drills along with iron arm training help develop the strength in the grab. The ability to do this is very important and involves split second timing.

    You must develop this jerking action initiated from the strong stance pulling with the arm and hips, creating a whiplash type effect on the opponent. It’s not a full on strength type technique, it’s a full body motion that whips and jerks. If done correctly you will either jerk him off of his feet or his head from his neck. This disables him for a split second for your attack and or injures the neck itself.

    If you look closely on the newer pull punch drill you can see my students neck snapping back. Although slight it is enough to jar his head so he can’t get a proper block on the technique. His head was jarred from the jerk and he’s unable to focus on what’s coming next.

    These tactics are very important to mantis in general and “MUST” be played constantly to develop the proper mechanics and power.

    So there are a few of the comments in the other thread.
    Last edited by shirkers1; 10/11/2004 2:45pm at .
  4. mididoctors is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/11/2004 2:55pm


     Style: Derek jones

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by shirkers1

    These tactics are very important to mantis in general and “MUST” be played constantly to develop the proper mechanics and power.
    is it a skill they can demonsrate to there own satisfaction in a free fight situation such as light contact sparring...

    if one saw junior (not new)practioners of this art fighting will one actually see them applying these skills?

    do you have sparring in your curriclum at some level

    is there footage of that?

    would you be willing to film a sparring session for us to see?

    Boris
    London
  5. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    10/11/2004 3:38pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ok Shirkers1, My point was, do you ever do any non-cooperative drills and or live sparring? If so how much?

    The clips you posted are essentially "dead" drills. They have no resistance or are not training in increasing levels of resistance.
  6. glass joe is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/11/2004 3:49pm


     Style: stand, clinch, & grapple

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    the problem with trapping drills is that in real life your opponent is never going to strike at you in that manner

    unless of course, they are you're kung fu training buddy who is studying the same drills
  7. Thaiboxerken is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/11/2004 4:00pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kru-MuayThai,GJJ-Blue

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh, I'm not so sure the trapping drills are useless. I do hubud drills and we often end up throwing boxing style punches at each other during the session. These drills are also good for developing good clinch entries.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." – Voltaire.
  8. shirkers1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/11/2004 4:08pm


     Style: northern mantis boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes we do free sparring, we end every class with free sparring and or some sort of med touch hands. But you have to train the individual technique to be able to use it. That's all those vids are. An individual peice in a much larger picture. When you spar you apply that tacting when the proper opening presents itself. You react to that situation with the proper tactic. Eventually it becomes 1st nature.

    Come on now, I'm not a new kid on the block so to speak. You guys aren't telling me anything I don't already know or do. Just because you don't see it in those specific videos it doesn't mean we don't do it. I don't underestimate what you do or what anyone else does. I've seen too many people get put in there place when they do this. A good fighter will look at those vids and see use in them and know that it's only a small peice of the puzzle. Thanks for your constructive criticism, you do what you do and I'll keep doing what I do. Obviously it's worked for us or we'd be doing something else.
    Last edited by shirkers1; 10/11/2004 4:11pm at .
  9. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    10/11/2004 4:28pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for your constructive criticism, you do what you do and I'll keep doing what I do. Obviously it's worked for us or we'd be doing something else.
    You're welcome, now come to a throwdown and let's see what mantis looks like against non-mantis people without cooperation. Look in the throwdown forum there will probably be one in your area soon. I genuinely want to see those trapping motions applied against someone that is not cooperating and not doing the prescribed strikes.
    Last edited by WhiteShark; 10/11/2004 11:36pm at .
  10. shirkers1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/11/2004 4:44pm


     Style: northern mantis boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    LOL you think I haven't played around with brazilian jujitsu guys or mixed martial artists? Trapping is done when the oportunity calls for it. See you have no clue about anything but what you do. So why should I even be listening to what you have to say. I'm sure there will be one comming soon to a block near me, it's the new fad like karate was in the 80's.

    My style covers all the fighting ranges. It's not just a trapping style like WC. I know you guys want to get a hold of me and wrestle. So why would I let you do that? The problem is what are you gonna do when you can't get a hold of me? Better still what am I going to do to you period? You already have the wrong impression of what I'm about. I'm just a skinny white boy right? I'm a punk who can't fight, and you'd be able to walk right over me. :) If you know so much about my style and how well I would hold up then lets hear what you have to offer. I really could give two shits about you and your mixed martial arts, I don't say it's crap but it's not the end all be all. That's the point between you and I, I'm not going to underestimate you and your style. So why is it that you underestimate me and what I have to offer? Just by seeing a couple of short clips to some drills? That's pretty impressive, you've gained my respect. I mean from what you've said so far I'm just going to up and quit what I've been doing for 14 years because you've shown me the light. (oh by the way I can already tell you have no clue so I'll just say that I was being sarcastic since you probably didn't pick up on that either).
    Last edited by shirkers1; 10/11/2004 4:52pm at .
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