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  1. grond is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/11/2004 7:43pm


     Style: wingy chingy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by mididoctors
    once things move your way don't give up the pressure.. yes?




    the rolling hands is not a real thing... it is a movement designed to induce a learning process..

    a good example is rolling the FIRST thing you are taught is that the tan sao is in control

    ie don't roll until you opponents tan sao starts to move... you become aware of arm movement...

    conversley techniques leant in chi sao need to be reality checked

    do you pak sao attack from the fuk sao hand or the other...?




    I think that is correct(ish) but there is no reason why it shouldn't teach you how to move your feet either



    there's loads.. experment with tensing the muscles in your upper back as you roll... don't get fooled in to thinking you are developing anything useful as a fighting skill... another both hands on top double jut sao man sao turning combo..basicly unblockable but only because its a meaningfull counter to the original position.... do you get my point about arbitary.. when you design some sensitivity drill you have to assign some starting point,, having the knowledge to defeat the starting point isn't that usefull

    edit add: pushing down as you punch in.. someone uses that in the clip i posted..

    pretty meaningless




    not a lot of absorbing stances rooting forces into the ground i bet

    Boris
    London

    Boris, we just disagree. That's cool tho.
    For someone who thinks chi sao is meaningless you seem to know alot about it. :)
  2. Djimbe is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/11/2004 10:58pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by grond
    weird versions of tan sau? I don't know what you mean...Score? What power is used to control the line djimbe?

    Sorry for the Delay , Posting from out of town ...

    This "Punching" that is being done lacks structure . Its LIKE throwing an uppercut , where the inside of the wrist is facinf the sky , but the power/architecture isnt there to back it up ! theres a REASON that Boxers roll their hips under themselves and "Jump Up" when throwing an Uppercut - the tricep and shoulder are weak when the bones of the forearm are in that Position . Rotate the hand so that the inside of the wrist is now facing the Wall (and NO LONGER facing the CEILING) and then you amplify your power . You also make it FAR less easy to "take your hands" ... the way that Punches are being thrown , youre practically already IN a Standing Wristlock ! all someone has to do is fok down on your elbow joint , and Bong sau your hand back tward your Shoulder - youll have no way to Resist them , and if they add a foot trap youre bound for Gracieland (the floor) .

    Im saying that when you throw the punch like in these vids , with the inside of the wrist facing up , but the fist coming forward and down , youre asking to be beaten up by someone that knows about structure . You should basically NEVER hae the wrist facing the ceiling wihout being accompanied by a Lifting/Pulling motion (one , the other , OR both) IF YOU WISH TO DRIVE FORWARD TURN YOUR INNER WRIST TWARD YOUR RIBS !!! its VERY easy to test/sense how much more power you have in pushing type motions in this posture . Pinkie tward the floor , square fist , no angle . even the SMALLEST turning upward of the pinkie can mean a broken structure for you .


    "Score" :

    I meant that in the vid it looked like he was trying to make some kind of 'POINTS' with those strikes . they should not be counted , because of how easily the POWER IS BROKEN . the fact is that there is no score in a fight , and IF you take a line you had BETTER be taking it with POWER to back it up ! the power is the power of proper structure . chi sau is supposed to tewach us how to TAKE the line in a Fight . Not just Idetify where it is and tap someone .
  3. grond is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/11/2004 11:30pm


     Style: wingy chingy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Djimbe-
    The person in the 'chain punching' clip is just being lazy. We don't normally train our punches that way.

    What do you mean by 'the Power being broken'?
    "It does not matter who the master is. It does not matter what the face looks like. The masters are of the Qimen school of qigong/meditation which is related to Zen. The master wears white robes, and the predecessor master wears bright gold robes. The qimen school travels the univers and is not restricted to what paradise they live in. It has many masters" -Serious Harm
  4. mididoctors is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/12/2004 7:45am


     Style: Derek jones

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by grond
    Boris, we just disagree. That's cool tho.
    For someone who thinks chi sao is meaningless you seem to know alot about it. :)
    i am not communicating well sorry....

    I think the oposite I think sensitivity drilling can be an amazing trainning aid

    i think chi sao is fantastic.. some one mentioned progessive resistance on another thread .. this is exactly it chi sao evolves into free open sparring but allows for technique to be applied

    BUT you have to understand the limitations or meaning of it... otherwise you will train for skills that have no meaning...

    the ITWA has a forum with entire sections devoted to discussing how to absorb force into your stance... amazing.. there is even a thread were n instructor and a student discuss how these absorbing skills could be used to defeat the likes of kimbo...

    no one has stopped to ask what is the virtue of developing a skill that pins your feet to the ground... how useful is that in a punch up

    its the obvious questions you need to ask yourself.

    Boris
    london
    Last edited by mididoctors; 10/12/2004 8:21am at .
  5. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/12/2004 7:53am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I found that their chi was misdirected.
  6. mididoctors is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/12/2004 8:37am


     Style: Derek jones

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by ronin69
    I found that their chi was misdirected.
    I concur

    Boris
    London
  7. dramaboy is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/12/2004 11:52am


     Style: -

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Grond:
    With all the respect, the clips suck. ALL the attacks are totally halfassed, overcomitted, compliant.
    I knew there were some WC guys in Richmond, and was thinking about visiting them, but if THIS is what they do, I won't bother.
    You're in Austin, correct?
    Look up Frank Benn Integrated Martial Arts.
    I've been reading Frank's stuff for years. It will change your perspective. Unless you want to stick to WC for cultural or whatever unrelated reasons.

    Tomas
    Current stage of death: denial
  8. grond is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/12/2004 1:37pm


     Style: wingy chingy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Damn drummerboy! :) I'm sorry you think so badly of the clips you saw. Again, they are demo clips and are trying to make us look good, which failed in your case. They are not necesarily indicative of how we train. Can you give a few examples of what you didn't like?
    Anyways, please don't let what you see online keep you from crosstraining, especially with the vt guys in richmond! I have personal experience with that school and can tell you that it wouldn't be a wasted trip, honestly.
    And thanks you for the advice about frank benn! I first heard about him from my sifu, who crosstrained with him for awhile and really respects him. Its nice to know such a good martial artist is literally five blocks from my house if I ever want to seriously crosstrain.
    "It does not matter who the master is. It does not matter what the face looks like. The masters are of the Qimen school of qigong/meditation which is related to Zen. The master wears white robes, and the predecessor master wears bright gold robes. The qimen school travels the univers and is not restricted to what paradise they live in. It has many masters" -Serious Harm
  9. dramaboy is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/12/2004 2:41pm


     Style: -

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The clips had all the things that all the WC clips have:

    A dude comes in with a WIIILD swing, and the other guy does some kind of a block and unloads 100000 chickenpunches on the dudes head. The dude's no defending, not attempting to recover, just kind of backs away or drops to the floor.

    Two dudes do chisao. One dude gets through other dudes hands and taps his chest with his fist. The drill is silly. The ONLY thing you are learning is to tap other people's chests.
    If you want to drill sensitivity and gripping, do pummeling. 1000 times more usefull.

    People running onto other people's pushkicks.

    Really, I've been through all this myself.

    Fighting is simple and there's few fairly simple techs and drills. And they ALL can be most effectively practiced in sports arts.
    Really, go to Franks, pay the mat fee, roll/play with them and see for yourself.
    It is worth it.
    And before you know it you'll be TEh DeDDLi3s7 grappl3R.
    :)

    Tomas
    Current stage of death: denial
  10. Antagony is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/12/2004 3:05pm

    supporting member
     Style: Filthy Jailhouse Tactics

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I visited Frank Benn's school. Here's my report --

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...ght=frank+benn

    Not a bad place, but out of the 3 MMA schools I visited in Austin I would have to say it holds the bottom position. It all depends on what you would be looking for at that type of school, though.
    MY NAME IS ANTAGONY I SUCK AT COMBAT SPORTS KTHX

    "blahblahblah, but I don't think I'm going to train tonight."
    "Fag."
    "Well if that were true, then I'd really REALLY want to come train!"
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