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  1. Matt W. is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/08/2004 10:04am

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     Style: Judo, TKD BB

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Adventures in Point Sparring

    [Nothing new in this post, really, but I thought it might be interesting to some...]

    So, today I will be doing some informal point sparring with a point Champ for the second time. In truth, this is just a kid. High School age, but he is about 6 foot somethin' to my 5'8" (he's a student at my school). He's got a brown in what he calls "teakwondo" but seems to be more of some generic American Karate style. He's competed and won at the US Open here in O-Town and is a legit champ in point sparring.

    He knows I'm into fighting, that I wrestle and have a TKD BB, so he always wants to test me out. We already did a bit of light contact Vale Tudo so he could see how his MA stands up to groundfighting. Of course, that had the typical result of me, a wrestler with 2 months of BJJ, taking him down and submitting him at will. Repeatedly. Subbing someone who knows literally nothing about groundfighting is nothing to brag about, however it was an eye opener for him.

    Anyhoo, after that he kept wanting to see how I would do against him fighting "his way". So today will be our second of two times fighting point style.

    The first time, we went pretty even. I guess I'd have to say he was ahead on points. :D Which is, of course, the idea behind point fighting. However, I pretty much gave as good as I got. It was close. My impressions of the style of sparring are mixed.

    I would have to say that it is only vaguely related to fighting. Winning a point on a "touch" and stopping after every point really does turn it into a game of tag. It also makes it based entirely on speed. We all know that encourages bad habits where you ignore what might be powerful attacks because you can quickly touch the other guy before his attack lands. That proved to be true in my experience.

    On the plus side, it did help me to work on my flinch reflex (which is a problem for me when striking). It does also encourage you to look for and create openings, and to be very focused in choosing targets. All in all, it's not a complete waste of time for me because I'm not getting in any other stand-up sparring right now. But compared to any other kind of fighting, it's pretty useless.
  2. CaptShady is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/08/2004 10:16am


     Style: Beverly Hills Ninjitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    We did some kind of point sparring in my class the other day. It wasn't as you described though, and I didn't really want to participate in it, but I didn't want to cop a tude in class either, and be disrespectful. We had to have committed attacks, not tag stuff, and it wasn't a one hit and break thing, really. The point was to be able to spar longer without gassing out. So if fighters were shuffling around without striking at all, there would an inevitable break. After a good exchange of blows, regardless of whether not they landed resulted in a break, and then after a really good strike or two, there'd be a break.

    I'm more concerned about the endurance part of free sparring myself, so I still didn't care for it, but it wasn't without it's bad points. You could quickly evaluate a "loss" during the break, and think of somethign else to try, and it DID let you spar longer. I'm not sure how I feel about it at this point, but it did strike my curiosity up enough to keep participating for more info to reflect on.
  3. electronicworm is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/08/2004 2:06pm


     Style: Style is Meaningless

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When I was younger I used to do point sparring at tournaments sometimes. Its more like patty cake than fighting. Because I was never as fast as the point "champs" with my feet I only won sometimes. One of the last point sparring tournaments I competed in I broke my opponent's shin and still lost on points even though he could hardly stand. Don't ask me how that happens, I'm still trying to figure it out. I get so worried that I'll be disqualified for hitting people too hard that I tend to move at half speed and not really fight like I should.

    For endurance training I prefer light-contact sparring that is continous where you don't hit full power, just enough to let him know you could have hurt him and try to work combinations and stuff for sometimes up to 30 minutes straight. Excellent workout.
  4. JKing is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/09/2004 2:46am

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     Style: Kajukenbo, BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Point sparring or not... if you have issues with control then you should do something about it. There really isn't any excuse for hurting someone that badly in a LIGHT CONTACT training (and sure even competing) scenario. Go hard when you need do, go light when you need to. I dont mean to rant, but it ticks me off when people slam you in a light contact sparring session and then they think that its pretty boss of them to be able to do that.

    The thing that always made me hate things like point sparring were the "makes no sense in reality" points. like the jump up and tap on the top of the head. That would NEVER work in reality... but 60% of points are scored that way. Lame.
    Last edited by JKing; 10/09/2004 3:16am at .
  5. feedback is offline
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    UAAAH!

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    Posted On:
    10/09/2004 2:59am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This made me realize my TKD training never did point sparring, our sparring classes were continuous, full contact (with full hogu and gear) TKD rules. We never stopped after being hit. I guess it wasn't as bad as it could be.
    Tough is not how you act, tough is how you train.
  6. bushi51 is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/09/2004 3:55am

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's not necessarily point sparring I hate, but the belief that prowess in point sparring is equivelant to fighting prowess.
  7. electronicworm is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/09/2004 1:49pm


     Style: Style is Meaningless

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    TKD that includes a chest protector, full power hits and continuous fighting is olympic style. TKD that has gloves and boots and head gear as the only protection, only allows light contact and isn't continous is ITF style point sparring.

    Knockouts happen in olympic TKD (three knockdowns is a TKO). If you hurt someone in ITF style point sparring you get disqualified. I saw some olympic TKD on tv one night during the olympics. Heavyweights. A 6' 3" Korean was fighting a 6' 7" Greek in the final. The Greek guy tried a roundhouse kick and the Korean jumped in the air and hit the guy in the temple with a jumping, spinning hook kick. The Greek fell to his knees and went totally white. People helped him get up and the Korean won by KO like 30 seconds into the first round.
  8. Matt W. is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/09/2004 2:01pm

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     Style: Judo, TKD BB

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Captain, Where do you train and in what style? I actually have no idea. At any rate, perhaps you are simply less critical of it than me? I know that they always say points are supposed to only count for techniques with intent, but usually it ends up not working that way. Besides, anything where you have to guess what would have happened had you actually done it is already doing something majorly wrong, IMO. If you're going to practice something, do it. Don't pretend to do it. That's why I hate point sparring. For the most part you are only pretend fighting.

    JKing, this kid (with his greater height and reach) hit me with that lunging punch to the top of the head several times. It was a very quick move for him. But I was thinking the same as you. Hit someone IRL like that, and it's either going to do nothing, or break your hand!

    Feedback, "Electronictronic Worm is right about Olympic/WTF style sparring. However...

    EW, you're wrong about ITF sparring. It is continuous. And so different from what I've been doing here. This "US Open" type of point sparring is the worst because it is non-continuous.

    Glad somebody got something out of this. I'll probably keep doing this simply because I've got nothing better to do at the moment. And besides, the kid says he thinks I'd do well competing at it! Heh.
  9. electronicworm is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/09/2004 2:42pm


     Style: Style is Meaningless

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I could swear ITF sparring wasn't continous. Oh well. Learn something every day. Its still not real fighting. I watched some national championship with point sparring. I nearly laughed my ass off.

    REFEREE: Ready....GO!

    FIGHTER 1: (Thinking) "Hahahahaa, I am a 11th degree blackbelt in kung fu. He stands no chance against my tornado punches."

    FIGHTER 2: (Thinking) "Hehehehee, I am a 32nd degree blacksash in kung fu AND karate. He stands no chance against my hobbit punches."

    *The two fighters circle each other*

    FIGHTER 1: "Hiyaaa!" *He charges in like a mad man on speed totally ignoring the fact that if there weren't any rules his opponent could knock him out with an elbow strike to the temple*

    FIGHTER 2: (Thinking) "He charges at me! The fool! My hobbit punches will put an end to that!"

    *FIGHTER 1 taps FIGHTER 2 on the top of the head like a little girl*
    *FIGHTER 2 ducks down low and taps FIGHTER 1 in the stomach like a retarted hobbit fighting a man totally ignoring the fact that his opponent could knock him out with a knee strike to the jaw*

    REFEREEE: "That was close. We'll have to go to the judges!"

    JUDGE: "We conclude it was a tie. No point to either fighter."

    REFEREE: "Ready...GO!"

    And it continues until on person gets 3 points or whatever.
  10. CaptShady is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/10/2004 12:14am


     Style: Beverly Hills Ninjitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by Matt W.
    Captain, Where do you train and in what style? I actually have no idea. At any rate, perhaps you are simply less critical of it than me? I know that they always say points are supposed to only count for techniques with intent, but usually it ends up not working that way. Besides, anything where you have to guess what would have happened had you actually done it is already doing something majorly wrong, IMO. If you're going to practice something, do it. Don't pretend to do it. That's why I hate point sparring. For the most part you are only pretend fighting.
    San Antonio, TX, in EPAK (American Kenpo). It was my first foray into "point sparring" for the most part. I'm hoping the point behind it was to extend the time sparring instead of gassing out everyone quickly, I dunno. Hopefully it's not the new way we're going about it, I think it was just because we had a shortage of sparring partners that day. There really was no guess, and it wasn't 1 strike and you break, it was a break dependent on how long you were at it, and what you did. One break got called on my and my partner, after no shots landed, but there were a lot of foot maneuvers. One got called after I landed a 3 punch combo.

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