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  1. dramaboy is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/08/2004 1:00pm


     Style: -

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Boris:
    I was out-boxed while trying to do WC. Boxing footwork is really difficult to control the way you are thaught in WC. You CAN'T stick to a boxer. Your only chance is good clinche work, which is really NOT a strong point of WC.

    Do you work with boxers? If not, I suggest you do.

    It's been a while since I was doing WC, things may have changed. But looking at the current demos here I would not bet on it.

    Tomas
    Current stage of death: denial
  2. WingChun Lawyer is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/08/2004 1:07pm

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     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ newbie.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I did 2 years of non-sparring WC, and I have been doing MT for six months. I am certainly not an authority on either system, but in my opinion...well, WC presumes too much. It presumes that your opponent won´t sidestep, it presumes that you only need the straight punch in all punching situations...maybe this has to do with the fact that I never went beyond the first form, but I still see those problems in those videos of WC sparring made by supposed masters.
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats
  3. dramaboy is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/08/2004 1:12pm


     Style: -

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    WCL you are tEh corr3cT.

    Tomas
    Current stage of death: denial
  4. mididoctors is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/08/2004 1:41pm


     Style: Derek jones

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by drummerboy
    [B]Boris:
    I was out-boxed while trying to do WC. Boxing footwork is really difficult to control the way you are thaught in WC.
    I am sure it was

    You CAN'T stick to a boxer. Your only chance is good clinche work, which is really NOT a strong point of WC.
    you do not need to stick that much to any body never mind boxers.. depends on the fighter lite footed fighters are an issue. enter to their blindside if possable BIG TOPIC WILLING TO GO THERE

    Do you work with boxers? If not, I suggest you do.
    well once upon a time before electricity I did

    It's been a while since I was doing WC, things may have changed. But looking at the current demos here I would not bet on it.
    i think the main problem is the other way round....

    Wing Chun footwork is NOT shuffling feet bullshit you see in all these demos with Rooted-ness some sort of holy grail... thats all CRAP where this rubbish came from i don't know but WC i was taught and practiced is about mobility!

    no matter what fighting style you use in reality you will step 99 times out of 100 rather than slide.. its quicker less resistance..

    visual accuity and timming in the pre contact phase is a skill you need to aquire through sparring fighting drilling etc...

    Boris
    london
  5. WingChun Lawyer is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/08/2004 1:55pm

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ newbie.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    One thing that always pissed me off about WC was the way the development stages of the system interferred with footwork. I heard that WC footwork is supposed to be agile, not shuffling your feet: but if you take two years to finish the siu nin tao, and all the footwork you do during that time is shuffling footwork, you will indeed move that way.

    The stages of development of WC always seemed a pain in the ass. I want to know how that thing is supposed to work NOW, I don´t want to be spoon fed like a baby.
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats
  6. Traditional Tom is offline
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    [This space for rent]

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    Posted On:
    10/08/2004 2:02pm

    supporting member
     Style: Mixed Martial Arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here comes the airplane... (holding spoon full of banana mush in front of WCL's face)
  7. Matt W. is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/08/2004 2:03pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, TKD BB

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Somebody sure likes their kidney mush!"

    -Orderly to Homer after seeing him race to the table for dinner in the old folks home.
  8. mididoctors is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/08/2004 2:03pm


     Style: Derek jones

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by WingChun Lawyer well, WC presumes too much. It presumes that your opponent won´t sidestep,
    most of the problem comes fom teaching people to have ridiculous weight ditribution on there legs and some INSANE fetish for front leg kicks..

    if you opponent steps off across your axis you kick him with your rear foot its that fucking simple!

    if he steps off to your offside you need to exchange step ie reverse stance (there are ways of doing this)..

    this is true independant of style never mind WC

    it presumes that you only need the straight punch in all punching situations...
    the word presumption is an excellent choice of word as all systems are a compromise based on assumptions

    this punch issue is a fair critism but in reality a hook is a lot like a folding elbow in function (there is plenty room for argument there) the so called uppercut in Chum kil is bullshit

    try this: place a wing chun punch, head height on a wall in front of you with 3 knuckles tounching the wall..

    now track a curve down the wall keeping the knuckles in contact with the wall the hand turns over into an almost karate like punch or cross..

    the angle of target to shoulder height will determine how my punches are thrown.. ie they are not typicaly WC though the elbow mechanics are not completly lost even if the fist is pointing down.... this is hard to describe

    basicly the higher up the wall the more the palm faces upward and conversley more down the wall more palm down is the hand...

    it has served me well

    excellent post WCL

    Boris
    London
    Last edited by mididoctors; 10/08/2004 3:35pm at .
  9. mididoctors is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/08/2004 2:09pm


     Style: Derek jones

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by WingChun Lawyer
    One thing that always pissed me off about WC was the way the development stages of the system interferred with footwork. I heard that WC footwork is supposed to be agile, not shuffling your feet: but if you take two years to finish the siu nin tao, and all the footwork you do during that time is shuffling footwork, you will indeed move that way.

    The stages of development of WC always seemed a pain in the ass. I want to know how that thing is supposed to work NOW, I don´t want to be spoon fed like a baby.
    because they didn't know what the **** they were teaching..

    i learnt mobility day one INFACT the first lessons were footwork only..

    this development stage **** is an excuse for not knowing.. functional WT footwork is not that different from boxing MT etc AND has stance switching and footwork for escape/ retreating going backwards

    Boris
    London
    Last edited by mididoctors; 10/08/2004 2:13pm at .
  10. WingChun Lawyer is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/08/2004 2:13pm

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ newbie.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by mididoctors

    1) most of the problem comes fom teaching people to have ridiculous weight ditribution on there legs and some INSANE fetish for front leg kicks..

    2) this is fair critism but in reality a hook is a lot like a folding elbow in function (there is plenty room for argument there) the so called uppercut in chum kil is bs
    1) Yes, but that is what is taught. For long, long years, in at least two WC schools I know. So I think it is WC. And it is wrong, SPECIALLY if you must later invest time and effort to unlearn that stupid step in order to use advanced WC techniques. And in order to spar.

    2) Point is, we can turn both siu nin tao and biu jee inside out and find as many techniques as we want hidden there, but again, I spent two years doing WC and I was formally (and roughly) introduced to the hook only during my first MT class. WC people simply do not practice any punches other than the straight punch. This is stupid, but AFAIK it is a fact: even if the techniques are somewhere in the repertoire, the system presumes that they are not useful, that the straight punch is all you need. This is wrong.
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats
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