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  1. Beatdown Richie is offline
    Beatdown Richie's Avatar

    game dog

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Munich, Germany
    Posts
    1,886

    Posted On:
    10/05/2004 10:10am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I suppose pulling up on the head would be frowned upon in judo, but I don't see the grapevine as much of a submission, I have never heard it was illegal in judo, and I even believe it's the recommended method for holding mount in judo (as opposed to the high mount, which is better for armbars, chokes and stuff, but more vulnerable to the bridge-and-roll escape).
    There are no wrong threats, only wrong answers. (Strategy game truism)
      #11
  2. Te No Kage! is offline
    Te No Kage!'s Avatar

    Chemist

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    3,139

    Posted On:
    10/05/2004 12:38pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ya, grapevine isn't a submission in judo just a way to hold the mount, which is a pin, and can get you an ippon after 25 seconds in Judo competition. Like I said before, I think it's a good way to get control and get the shoulder choke
    "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." -A. Lincoln

    Vote your conscience.... Vote Libertarian!
      #12
  3. KhorneliusPraxx

    Guest

    Posted On:
    10/05/2004 12:46pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
      #13
  4. KhorneliusPraxx

    Guest

    Posted On:
    10/05/2004 12:50pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That added nothing to the discussion.
      #14
  5. Bizzaro Root is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    St. Petersburg, Fl
    Posts
    1,044

    Posted On:
    10/05/2004 4:20pm


     Style: Gracie Barra Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    this is a great pic of the grapevine forth picture down

    http://www.gilavista.org/members/yea...4/wrest3.shtml

    its old but like i said before it only seems to work on some your taller than or same hieght
    Eduardo "Why'd you stop."

    Me "I was kicked in the head by the guys sparring next to me."

    Eduardo "Ino what happened but i didnt say you could stop."

    Me "Um.. I guess I keep going."

    Eduardo "You dont stop until i say stop, you dont get tired until i say your tired, keep going."


    Originally posted by Ralek
    My cousin gave me some tapes of him doing tkd. I learned from those tapes. When I beat up an Akido instructor, and made him take rest breaks, I used TKD. I learned Bjj from watching ufc and pride and then I copied them and wrestled my cousin for practice. I choked him out and he tapped.
      #15
  6. Stick is offline
    Stick's Avatar

    Mostly, I just sit here. Mostly.

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Washington DC. USA
    Posts
    7,952

    Posted On:
    10/05/2004 4:45pm

    hall of famestaff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's excellent, I use it from guard and mount, strings people out, forces them to either exert themselves or suffer through it. I use it to set up multiple sweeps with ease, a few submissions, and the vine itself can be used as a submission on an opponent of similair size.

    One reason they might have warned against it, I suppose, I recently showed the grapevine to a guy in TKD- we have weekly grappling sessions- as a setup to a sweep.... well, he tried it on a guy that outweihed him by 100lbs. While he managed to string the guy out for a second, his opponent, brought one foot up to stand up out of guard, but seeing as his foot was still wrapped...... the guy's knee was practically destroyed, he's been out of practice for two months and won't be able to work with us again till late november, early December. I have never had a problem with this on account of a very high degree of flexibility, that and I don't get caught like that.... but n00bs, yeah, I was informed to never teach that to beginners ever again, I felt like such a dick.

    Honestly, between grapevining in mount and in guard, I find grapevining in guard to be far more constructive, if I'm in mount I want to be able to move around more, shift to knee in stomach, north/south, etc. I've found that while a grapevine is great for holding someone in mount- which is excellent for a pinning game- you don't have too many submissions, you have to release the grapevine and in the release you may find yourslef vulnerable to being swept (granted, swept into your guard, but still swept).

    I hope some of this has been useful.
      #16
  7. Bizzaro Root is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    St. Petersburg, Fl
    Posts
    1,044

    Posted On:
    10/05/2004 4:57pm


     Style: Gracie Barra Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    hmmm never thought of using it in my guard

    thanks for the insight i try that some time(on a white belt of course.)
    Eduardo "Why'd you stop."

    Me "I was kicked in the head by the guys sparring next to me."

    Eduardo "Ino what happened but i didnt say you could stop."

    Me "Um.. I guess I keep going."

    Eduardo "You dont stop until i say stop, you dont get tired until i say your tired, keep going."


    Originally posted by Ralek
    My cousin gave me some tapes of him doing tkd. I learned from those tapes. When I beat up an Akido instructor, and made him take rest breaks, I used TKD. I learned Bjj from watching ufc and pride and then I copied them and wrestled my cousin for practice. I choked him out and he tapped.
      #17
  8. Jekyll is offline
    Jekyll's Avatar

    .

    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    On the wrong side of the pond for gong sau
    Posts
    2,084

    Posted On:
    10/06/2004 10:52am

    supporting member
     Style: San shou(tai chi) +judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Cheers for the input guys. I think she might have misunderstood what I was doing and thought I was going for a "groin-bar" rather then a pin as I was told it put dangerous stress the hips.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickx
    It must suck for legit practitioners of tai chi like Cullion to see their art get all watered down into exercise for seniors.
    Those who esteme qi have no strength. ~ Exposition of Insights into the Thirteen Postures Attrib: Wu Yuxiang founder of Wu style tai chi.
      #18
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