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  1. GenkiSudo is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/28/2002 10:28am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    why does nin-jitsu get a bad rap???

    I'm just wondering why everyone puts down nin jitsu, It was once a popular art like that of karate and tae kwon do in the 80's, Not too many people teach nin jitsu, and it is unknown of its skill, So why does it get such a bad rap???

    just a though.
    GS
  2. Gezere is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/28/2002 10:44am

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     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Because most pple potray Ninjutsu as ULTRA BAD ASS fighting art. The truth of the matter is fighting has a very SMALL part in the scope of ninjutsu. I have several japanese books on ninjutsu written by MA historians and teacher in Japan and several copies of DENSHO. VERY little of it deals with fighting. In any of th Xkans on 3 schools are represented as ninjutsu. How much of those systems are regurally trained. The focus is usually on Gyokko Ryu, Koppjutsu, etc. But you look at most NON kan schools and you see NINJA FLIPPING OUT AN KILLING EVERBODY!!!! An the KOGA schools kill me the most! You will find as MANY UBER NINJA GRANDMASTERS and any other art. There are A LOT of pple out professing to teach ninjutsu and are really teaching crap or a weir mix of karate/kungfu/etc and callig it ninjutsu. If you see a school professing to teach ninjutsu and the spend the majority of their time fightng it is very likely that it ISN'T ninjutsu. Oh and the BIGGEST mark if a ninjutsu school is FAKE they say the teach KOGA!!!!! (ALL Japanes MA historians, orgs, and even the government agree the KOGA is a DEAD system.)

    Wakarimasu ka Genki ja warui

    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  3. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/28/2002 10:53am

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     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A slew of bad 80's Ninja movies, and the subsequent herds of delusional wannabe, goofy looking American "Ninjas" (legitimate or not) have all contributed to the art being a laughingstock.

    I think the first nail in the coffin was the old "Tick" series if anyone's read that. It was a good while ago and they were the first, I believe, to portray Ninjas as blithering idiots in black pajamas.

    It's the general "cheesyness" of the whole Ninja mystique that's given them a bad rap. The art got so much attention for being "deadly and powerful" that there was a huge backlash when the U.S. grew out of its love for overdone action flicks and unrealistic Japanese martial arts.

    Now we have a love for unrealistic Chinese martial arts on the movie screen. :) No, I'm not slamming Kung Fu, I'm slamming Wire-Fu, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Wires, and the like.
  4. Gezere is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/28/2002 11:03am

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     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Phrost there is NOTHING wrong with MA movies (Japanese, Chinese, or other) as long as the pple realize THEY ARE WATCHING A MOVIE!!! The said part if you have MANY pple BELEIVING things in a movie that are obvious. I remember when I started taking ninjutsu and even in japan you get some pple that don't get past the movies. A guy asked if I could disappear like the ninja in his manga (illustrated text aka comic book) I told him to shut his eyes and PUFF I was gone!


    BTW I read the old TICK I thought it they were hilarous! I also read TMNT at the same time. Back then they weren't nice loving pizza scoofing cowabunga dudes. Hell Leonardeo DECAPITATED Shredder not once but TWICE (the second one was a clone.)

    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  5. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/28/2002 12:38pm

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     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Or you could have just poked him really hard in the eyes too.

    I love MA movies. I've got a collection of old Gordon Liu Shaolin flicks on DVD. I thought CTHD should have gotten the Oscar for Best Picture.

    Hell, I even go see Jet Li movies in the theater when I know he's nothing but an actor/acrobat.

    There's just something wrong with my generation, having been saturated with Rocky/Rambo/Ninja movies to the point where some people believe the stuff is real.
  6. Mercurius is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/28/2002 12:52pm

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     Style: Karate, Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I bet Ninjitsu gets a bad rap because everyone knows Ninjas are so bad that they'll FLIP OUT and cut off heads without even thinking about it. They're just jealous that Ninjas are cool, and by cool, I mean totally sweet.

    --------------------
    And that's what I call REAL Ultimate Power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    "The morning glory blooms for an hour. It differs not at heart from the giant pine, which lives for a thousand years."
  7. Spineflow is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/28/2002 2:53pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is a good topic and everyone has made good points

    I train in Genbukan Ninpo and submission grappling/BJJ

    I enjoy my Ninpo training it was the first art to introduce me into grappling techniques. I have a very good teacher who is a police officer on the SWAT team. SO his insight into combat is irreplaceable

    The only thing I do not like about Ninpo is how the Grandmasters will not let it evolve. And what I mean by that is they keep techniques and customs in the art for the sake of preserving Japanese culture and tradition. I don't give a **** about Japanese culture. Why should I???

    I am cross training in other arts to make up for the weaknesses in Ninpo, mainly the lack of good ground fighting. My teacher does the same thing. I think Ninpo would be more of an effective art if the grandmasters and teachers would be more open minded to evolution in the art and stop worrying about the way Takamatsu did things.

    Ninpo has some great stuff in it, but it is not medieval Japan anymore. People don't fight with ancient weapons and people don't wear Samurai Armor. Ninpo needs to evolve, drop some of it's cultural customs and adopt new training protocols.

    That is just my point of view. And as Asia pointed out. Alot of Ninpo is warfare tactics and not necessarily hand to hand fighting techniques. And most of that stuff is hardly even taught in most Ninpo dojos. At least the legit schools. (Bujinkan Genbukan Jininkan)
  8. Gezere is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/28/2002 4:22pm

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     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Spineflow,

    You are in the Genbuka, like myself. Does your school instruct KJJ? If not it is kind of odd, not saying it is bad but all the Genbukan schools I know and been to teach both Ninpo and KJJ.

    As far as the sokes not letting ninjutsu evolve. This is not true many want to see evolution in the art but there is a reson for persevreing its past, Japanese cutsoms and all. The reason is that knowing the arts history gives insight on how and why the techniques exist. Hatsumi wants his practioners to "go and play" Tanemura is a bit more strict he doesn't mind the evolution but he wants to make sure the base been established before devulging. Manka differs form them both. Manka took the teaching and made them his own he formulated a school with his own person insights and cast out many traditions. so evolution does happen they just want to make sure it is done in a good way. There have been many BAD forms of Ninjutsu evolution for former Xkan students. One even profess to teach BOTH KOGA and IGA ryu ninjutsu!!!!


    >I have a very good teacher who is a police officer on the SWAT team. SO his insight into combat is irreplaceable


    What it here. There are many pple that don't think a because he is a cop he does have insight on fighting, like they don't believe a soldier would be better suited for a "streetfight" than a regular guy unless they are a MMA Pro Fighter!! This is sad I know but there are pple like this out there.



    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  9. Spineflow is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/28/2002 5:48pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ASIA

    yeah you make some really good points. You are right, beyond the syllabus there is much more evolution. yes my school does teach KJJ. My teacher has two independent ryu from that system. but he still prefers the ground fighting techniques of Submission grappling and BJJ and he incorporates them into our learning.

    You are right just because someone is a police officer or solider it doe snot make them a great fighter. But he has been in several fights in his type of work and all that experience really counts for something. His experience is shown through the techniques and movement he emphasizes. Go to genbukan.ca and look under the training link. There is real player files of him performing techniques. You'll see what I mean. His name is Troy. You will like the web sight regardless.
  10. King of Fists is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/28/2002 7:23pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Some Ninjutsu dojos are real nonsense.

    A few years ago, I ran across a Ninjutsu school run by two of Stephen Hayes' students. They were good, but the price for instruction was well over 150 bucks a month! The school closed down shortly afterwards.

    I think Judo and Aikido show that the old arts can change. I think Judo has an edge on both Aikdo and Ninjutsu because it forces competition, and when you have to do competition, your style evolves rapidly. For example many Judo schools are adopting Bjj ground techniques which themselves were taken from Kosen Judo way back in the day. My Judo instructor is a former wrestler, so we get those techniques too.

    Judo is only getting stronger because of the synthesis.
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