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  1. sicksicksick is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2002 3:45pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This site seems like a good idea. People need to start paying attention to the fact that there are people out there commiting fraud by teaching a martial art they are not qualified to teach.

    But it's all gone horribly horribly wrong. And why? Because of the UFC.

    I enjoy watching UFC tournaments, and wouldn't dream of fighting the majority of UFC competitors because they are good fighters. The same way I wouldn't fight a Karate master, or a Wing Chun expert, or a Shaolin Monk.

    The UFC stands for the ultimate fighting championship. The name itself is misleading. This isn't fighting. It's a sport. Why. Because there are rules.

    I have no problem with rules in the UFC. They are there to protect the individuals taking part in an already dangerous event. I have no problem with UFC fighters. They train, work hard and perticipate in this tournament and suceed because they are the best at what they do.

    Then what is my problem with the UFC? It's the non MA based fans.

    People who believe that you aren't a good fighter unless you can go to ground. That because a style is inneffective in the UFC conditions it is worthless. That because so-and-so doesn't use Martial Art X there is nothing worthwhile in it. That the fighters who represented the martial arts that lost were the best in their field.

    Too often on this board arguments degenerate into "Then why doesn't so or so enter the UFC and prove it?" or "Martial Artist X was there and he got his ass handed to him?"

    The majority of fighters in tournaments are not high level martial artists. A second or third dan is not high level. Seventh or eigth dan is high level.

    The reason high level Martial Artists don't enter the UFC is simple. They don't see the point. They didn't learn their martial art to become world famous or be on TV. They learnt it to defend themselves. Not to attack other people, which is what anyone entering the UFC is agreeing to do. Don't attribute to cowardice what can equally be explained by lack of interest.

    The majority of real MMA fighters don't underestimate any Martial Artist. No UFC fighter is going pick a fight with a grandmaster and think he is going to have an easy time. But ask any fan and the response will probably be "Oh he'll kick his ass because he only uses Karate."

    He may only use Karate, but he is a mean sonofabitch and will gladly rip your throat out if you give him the proper incentive.

    "But he doesn't have a groundfighting base." Put him in the guard position and you're gonna regret it when he's got your testicles in his hand.

    What we are seeing is the same thing as when Bruce Lee became famous. Suddenly, Bruce Lee was the best martial artist ever and his style must therefore be the best. Nevermind the fact that he never fought half the Masters he trained under. Or that he had the utmost respect for a lot of other Martial Artists. He was the name everyone knew, therefore he must be the best.

    So please. Don't treat the UFC as the be all and end all of martial arts. It isn't. It's a tournament, with rules. Few rules, admittedly, but remember, if you get in a fight with me, I'm not going to think twice about poking you in the eye or jumping on your head when you're down.

    And please. Use this site as what it is meant to be. A meeting place for people who are opposed to people pretending to teach people to defend themselves. These people are the scourge of all martial artists, mixed or traditional.

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    Traditional Martial Artist. As in I don't expect to fight in cages where I can't just poke them in the eye and rip their throat out.
    Mixed Martial Artist. As in I study more than one style and mix them together.
  2. Roidie McDouchebag is offline
    Roidie McDouchebag's Avatar

    Injury Waiting To Happen

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2002 4:22pm

    supporting member
     Style: Snatch Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Put him in the guard position and you're gonna regret it when he's got your testicles in his hand."

    This is impossible, it just would never ever work and I disagree with most of what you said but I'm glad you are here and I agree, this site isn't supposed to be about slamming traditional arts, it's supposed to be about exposing individual frauds in every style.
  3. Blad3 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2002 4:44pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Submission Wrestling.

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Agreed I Choke You.

    The UFC does have rules, just look at PrideFC though - less rules. The UFC does show what works to a certain degree, but yes there are rules, but generally not much more is going to happen then what does (just add biting, groin techniques and eye gouging, which I can reassure don't need to be learnt - children can effectively use those "instincts".)

    It's not the "be all and end all" but it's still good. Traditional Martial arts have good things too..
    "Training = pain." - I said that.

    PizDoff when drunk: "I'm actually MOST pissed that my target for the evening got drink...then I gave her my Bullshido Canada hoodie like a gentleman because she was outside with not much on...did I mention she barfed twice when I got our jackets...steaming barf is kinda fascinating..." - PizDoff.
  4. ruk is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2002 5:05pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You make some excellent points. The most obvious and blatant example of a "this isn't a real fight" rule is the no grabbing the fence (UFC) or ring ropes (Pride).

    In a REAL fight, I guarantee you that grabbing and holding on to something is an excellent way to avoid a grappler's takedown attempt.

    Anyone remember John Lewis vs Carlson Gracie Jr? Lewis knew he could never win on the ground, so he just latched on to the fence... since Gracie Jr had ZERO striking skills, he was basically impotent, and looked like a fool.

    Same with Mario Sperry and Igor Zinoviev. He jumped on Zinoviev's back for crying out loud!
  5. sicksicksick is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2002 5:10pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It is possible. I did some ground training for about a year and on the one occasion I forgot to wear my box I definitely knew about it. The guy was nice about it though. "Just don't forget in future." I didn't.

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    Traditional Martial Artist. As in I don't expect to fight in cages where I can't just poke them in the eye and rip their throat out.
    Mixed Martial Artist. As in I study more than one style and mix them together.
  6. Shaolin Dynasty is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2002 5:15pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I actually think people are to harsh on style "effectiveness" UFC/Pride fighters are professional. I think those fights are way tougher than a "street fight". Master x may lose in the UFC against extremely well fit athletes but there is still a good chance he can kick ass on the street.
  7. sicksicksick is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2002 5:17pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Children may effectivly use those instincts, but don't knock them. Children are exceptionally vicious. I don't doubt many of the grapplers in UFC or Pride wouldn't use them as well. My point was that calling it a fight is an innaccurate description, because there are necessary rules. And because these rules exist people don't have all the options open to them, and can't fight to their full extent. The rules restrict everyone, not just strikers. I have the same problem when people call a boxing match "The Big Fight". It isn't a fight.

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    Traditional Martial Artist. As in I don't expect to fight in cages where I can't just poke them in the eye and rip their throat out.
    Mixed Martial Artist. As in I study more than one style and mix them together.
  8. migo is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2002 6:32pm


     Style: Baboo Baby

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I Choke You, it is very possible to crush someone's testicles when they're in the guard position. Gene LeBell mentions that in a couple of his books.

    Nowadays everyone enters the UFC practically naked, 'cept for Tito Ortiz who doesn't want people to know how small his dick is, which screws up people who use clothes in fighting such as Judoka and Shuai Chiao fighters. The only time you're going to see people walking down the street dressed like in the UFC is if it's the Gay Pride parade.
  9. DrOctagon is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2002 6:40pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ive had boxing matches that were fights.I got two smashed orbiter bones in a match that I won.If you dont think it was a fight, then you never got in there.You wouldnt last 2 rounds with a dominican bantam weight.Streetfights are easy, I could jack up a few suckers on my lunch break.Big friggin deal.You wanna be a man you face the profighters.I was mostly just sharkbait as a boxer, a punching bag for guys that were going places.An you think Im not a fighter? You step in a ring or a cage and tell me "it wasnt a fight" as they drag your bloody carcass to the ambulance,boy.
    Steetfights are a joke to real fighters.The boxing rings are safe, cause fighters can wreck havok in the street, so guys with no balls will just shoot em.
    I am friggin STRESSED the night before I get in a ring, and I am usually laughing my ass off before, during and after a streetfight.
    The baddest of the bad streetfighters go pro.Guys like Mike Tyson that literally fight their way up from poverty.
    In the ring poor guys like me fight for MONEY.Ill buy you a drink if you kick my ass on the street.You kick my ass in a cage or ring an you're taking food off my table.Ill hate your guts.You got no clue kid, you go to a real boxing gym an tell them they aint fighters, an youll leave wearing a dress.
    Oh, I forgot.... youll poke them in the eye... BWAHAHA.... amatuers...

    I hate my brother.
  10. sicksicksick is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2002 6:54pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You aren't stressed during a streetfight? You aren't worried that the guy who you just hospitilised won't bring a few of his mates round to your home, have them hold you down and rip your mouth apart with a clawhammer? Man, you are nuts. I get stressed every time some arsehole decides that he doesn't like me. Because he can shoot me.

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    Traditional Martial Artist. As in I don't expect to fight in cages where I can't just poke them in the eye and rip their throat out.
    Mixed Martial Artist. As in I study more than one style and mix them together.
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