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  1. Left-Hook is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Alcatraz Island, cell #A3390
    Posts
    270

    Posted On:
    8/28/2004 2:16am


     Style: anti-bubba love-kwon fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    no matter what anyone says there is a differance between MMA and a real fight. There are beer bottles, knives, hammers, guns, biting, eye gouging, head butts, throat strikes. Do you think green barrett, and other special forces train to fight? hell no they are trained to K I L L.
  2. The Crack Taoist is offline

    I got an axe to grind

    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Nashville
    Posts
    556

    Posted On:
    8/28/2004 3:58am

    supporting member
     Style: thai.kali.no-gi.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by Matt Bernius
    DBH,

    I was with you for the most part up until Fairbain. I just don't like his material and I think there's a lot of better stuff out there.

    One question for you is how much time do you work on deployment/draws. The big issue I have with concealed weapons is that they take time to get to and often dexterity to use. I just don't trust anyone's ability to deploy under stress in close quarter combat (this goes doublely true for firearms with safetys).

    One thing that we used to practice with Pekiti is drawing and opening while being attacked. It's eye opening and really difficult.

    - Matt
    Matt,
    When I said WW2/Fairbairn "stuff" that's my pet blanket term
    for all sorts of "military combatives". Right not I'm
    getting the Cestari tapes, with the idea than I can
    focus my future MT and BJJ training on those methods
    the "authorities" agree work real good as murderous tricks.
    Eventually I'd like to get some of that Lerd Rit stuff too.
    What are you training if you don't like the Fairbairn/Appleton/Cestari stuff? (Personally I prefer to
    read stuff by people who were OLD School Judo and
    Boxing types.. means they been knocked around).

    You are DAMN right about the drawing and opening thing
    bro. It's a bitch. That's why I have basically shifted to
    small fixed blades as my "emergency draw". The Bowen
    is right there.. I can keep my hand over it with no
    odd looks. I'm thinking the next step is a Hideaway on
    the keychain...
    With a Fixed blade (even a small one) I don't have to
    "snap", just draw and slice.
    So I would say..
    find weapons that you can carry openly (tricky tricky)
    and keep the heavier gear concealed.
    My .22 stays in the pocket (I realize getting my
    Glock out of the ThunderWear/Smartcarry would be a
    REAL bitch in an emergency.
    What I need to do is get some old throwaway jackets
    and practice lefthanded shooting with the .22 from inside
    the pocket.

    YOu raise good points.. but people who don't play with knives
    don't even realize the issue exists.
    let's talk about why fat-fu shall we?
  3. Matt W. is offline
    Matt W.'s Avatar

    Community Corrections Officer

    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Spokane, WA
    Posts
    3,621

    Posted On:
    8/28/2004 5:32am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, TKD BB

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    no matter what anyone says there is a differance between MMA and a real fight. There are beer bottles, knives, hammers, guns, biting, eye gouging, head butts, throat strikes. Do you think green barrett, and other special forces train to fight? hell no they are trained to K I L L.
    First of all, an MMA fight is a REAL fight. They're not pretending out there in the cage, man. They are really fighting. I believe what you meant to say was, an MMA fight isn't the same as a STREET fight. And no one said it was. We are talking about training methods here. And MMA fighting provides a better method of training for ANY fight than RBSD.

    Let me ask a question. Are there bottles, knives, hammers, guns, biting, eye gouging, head butts, and throat strikes in RBSD training? Of course, the answer is NO. There may be PRETEND eye gouges and biting, but nobody is really doing it. So now what's "real fighting"? RBSD training is PRETEND fighting. MMA is real fighting.
  4. Matt Bernius is offline

    Middleweight

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    1,041

    Posted On:
    8/28/2004 10:37pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Strong Machine,

    It's clear that like anything there is a wide variety of quality in RBSD groups. I can only speak for what I've been exposed to, but Blauer's guys can bang, are in good shape, and traing and fight hard. I have yet to meet one who can't touch their toes and runs away from pain.

    Originally posted by strong machine
    Well as long as we are getting real...lets get BRUTALLY real.
    If a sportFighter went over and goosed a RBSD guys girlfriend the RBSD guys "pre-situational awareness" would have already kicked in and he would have tripped his girlfriend as he ran out the door as the MMA guy walked over to them.
    THAT is the essense of self-defense.
    IF the guy is on his game he might have noticed the big guy staring at them for a while and he and his girlfriend might have opted to leave. Or he might have stepped in front of his girlfriend and tried to talk the sport fighter down. Or if that failed he might just sucker punch the guy and try to make it out the door as quickly as possible with his GF. What I don't think he would do is try to get into an extended conflict because he should be aware that at that point he's out of his league and in someone elses playground.

    But seriously, how often does that type of things happen. In the few bar altercations I've been in, none have been with sport fighters fresh from the UFC, K-1, Pride or even the local gym. Your talking about an exception, not a rule. And if you want I can come up with exceptions that a sport fighter would have problems in as well.

    Originally posted by Matt W.
    Let me ask a question. Are there bottles, knives, hammers, guns, biting, eye gouging, head butts, and throat strikes in RBSD training? Of course, the answer is NO. There may be PRETEND eye gouges and biting, but nobody is really doing it. So now what's "real fighting"? RBSD training is PRETEND fighting. MMA is real fighting.
    Matt, I wish you could come down to our school. Our Blauer person has his students actively practice that stuff. From a fighting/sparring perspective, most of the nastiest stuff doesn't come out until they're fully geared up. But if you can rake over the eyes on a high gear suit during pressure sparring, you can do it in a fight. And they do head but, again with protection.

    As for biting, they don't do it too much during sparring. But they have been known to work on it during scenario work and sometimes ground work. There have been occasions were people have left with bite marks (thankfully no skin was broken, but it's still hard to explain to significant others).

    Perhaps our program isn't the norm. But they train hard. And considering that we have students of all colors in the class, I'm thinking they don't have the same race issues that Strong Machine has with the material.

    - Matt
    Last edited by Matt Bernius; 8/28/2004 10:39pm at .
    Student of Wan Yi Chuan Kung Fu,
    Kali, & what ever works
    Renaissance Martial Arts
    Rochester, NY
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