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  1. KeithAtTakadaDojo is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/03/2003 10:15am

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Author of Philosophy of Fighting: Morals and Motivations of the Modern Warrior Style: submission wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Kungfools talks like someone from the skeptic movement. They're the people who spend a lot of timing promoting science and debunking paranormal phenomena. But when I looked at some skeptic websites about martial arts, they sounded a lot more reasonable than Fools. Check it out, compare for yourself, and see if you think he can hold a candle to them.


    http://www.capital.net/~phuston/sdma.html

    http://skepdic.com/chikung.html

    http://www.csicop.org/sb/2000-03/qi.html
  2. Tart-Do is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/03/2003 10:38am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dude,

    Are you trippin?

    Next you will tell the og's how masters throw people without touching them.

    Take a few days off - you'll be alright!
  3. Sharp Phil is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/03/2003 10:46am


     Style: Liu Seong Gung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm sure 'foolss fancies himself something of a skeptic when he posts his five-year-old news clippings. The problem is that skeptics are devoted to logic agove all else. I strongly suggest cutting and pasting the following each time he posts:

    The Standard Response to Kungfoolss, Version 1.1

    'What, you don't like the article? You must be afraid of the truth.'

    The fundamental dishonesty of 'foolss' stock replies to criticism of his articles, of course, is that he denies the implications he attempts to make even as he continues making them.

    If another poster pastes an article about wrongdoing committed by someone in the martial arts community, responses will vary from "that's terrible" to "let's find the guy who did it and make him pay for his crime." That is not the issue. Most adults understand that news reports about specific individuals, even many reports, do not constitute a supportable and cogent argument in support of the notion that all martial artists are miscreants and evildoers.

    No, the problem is with 'foolss himself (herself? itself?). As pasting these articles -- often years out of date -- is virtually the only activity in which he engages here (when he is not playing the role of SCARS apologist), and as he has stated numerous times at his own forum that he believes that all martial arts and martial artists are evil, each post he makes in this regard is intended as an indictment. His pasting of the articles thus is meant to constitute "proof," as he sees it, for his sad and Quixotic campaign against all other arts, as with few exceptions all other arts are more reputable and more "legitimate" than the martial art he has adopted as his own (and which, of course, he will insist is not a martial art, as he desperately needs to believe he is somehow superior to practitioners of all other styles).

    When people react negatively to 'foolss' posts, it is because they see through the facade; they understand and reject as spurious logic the implication and the conclusion he is trying to make. 'foolss' only response to such criticism is to accuse others of being either insecure or afraid. 'foolss is, I am sure, an expert on both insecurity...

    http://www.philelmore.com/profiling/insecure.htm

    ...and on something we call "NPD," a disorder that manifests itself in his online behavior.

    --------------------------------------------
    Do Martial Poseurs Suffer From NPD?

    http://www.philelmore.com/profiling/npd.htm

    "...So yes, in their minds, you Phil are an evil, evil person. A person with NPD has a World that revolves around themselves, and as such, they believe everyone else should revolve around them too. I know you're a fan of rational egoism, well this would irrational egoism. When John Nash proposed the Nash Equilibrium, one of the key parts was that acting in self-interest meant taking your own consideration and other people's as well into consideration. Unfortunately, in irrational egoism seen in NPD, the person doesn't consider other people, so they actually act against their self-interest by being so self-centered. C'est la vie.

    "Also, when speaking of people who are unskilled and unaware of it, my favorite piece of research is this:

    "'People tend to hold overly favorable views of their abilities in many social and intellectual domains....This overestimation occurs, in part, because people who are unskilled in these domains suffer a dual burden: Not only do these people reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices, but their incompetence robs them of the metacognitive ability to realize it.'"

    --------------------------------------------

    As I indicated in my post, "Exposing the Evils of Dental Stylistry," you can find a nearly limitless supply of news articles in which people of every profession commit crimes. You could choose to focus on dentists, or on martial artists, or on doctors, or on lawyers, or on janitors. It hardly matters. Most rational people, free of the psychological burdens imposed on them by both a deep insecurity and a profound immaturity, understand this.

    You are unlikely to find a news article online in which a SCARS practitioner has committed a crime, for the same reason you are unlikely to find a news article online in which a professional rodeo clown is beaten to death with a frozen salmon and his grandparents are held as suspects in the crime. This is because there are precious few SCARS practitioners out there, just as there are precious few frozen-salmon-bludgeoned, grandparents-hating professional rodeo clowns compared to the general population. There are, however, millions of practitioners of various martial arts in the world.

    Speaking more generally, 'foolss' approach to "discussion" here is a great lesson in the difference between correlation and causation.

    Did you know that the more churches there are in a given city, the more crime it has? Stamp out crime, stop the Church!

    Attempting to draw conclusions about a population as a whole based on a sampling from within that population is statistics. Statistical analysis, to be valid, must be done according to very specific guidelines for the taking of the sample and for the logical analysis of the data the sample produces.

    If you do a web search for a member of any profession, club, or organization that is widely known, and include terms indicative of crime, you will generate a nearly endless stream of miscreants, malcontents, and evil-doers. The sample, however, is not *random*, thus rendering invalid any statistical conclusions drawn from it.

    Let's say we wish to know just how common it is for someone who considers himself a practitioner of, oh, say, Tim Larkin's Target Focused Training, to be a child molester or drug dealer. You're not likely to find a single entry. Can we then conclude that the characters of TFT practitioners are beyond reproach? Well, no -- because compared to the millions of people who practice some form of the "martial arts" worldwide, there are, again, precious few TFT adherents.

    Involvement in the martial arts no more makes one a monster waiting to happen than does involvement in the shooting sports (just how many crimes are committed with guns every year? Bet you could find a lot of articles about that) or a degree in dentistry or ownership of a Toyota.

    If one possesses an innate insecurity about one's ability to defend one's self, I could understand why this would manifest itself as a pathological hatred and contempt for all those who choose to carry the title "martial artist" -- for the title alone represents a level of effort expended and knowledge acquired that someone so insecure could never achieve.

    But of course, one need not understand these things; one could simply respond to them by saying, "You must fear the truth! I terrify you! My incredible psychoanalysis sees to the depths of your very soul! Pardon me while I pause to quote myself! Me me me me me!"

    Kungfoolss spends virtually all of his time tracking down these articles and posting them. When others identify, perhaps less explicitly than I've done here, the spurious logic of his implication, driven home again and again by the titles he chooses for his threads -- that all martial artists are godless communist gay baby seal-beating arsonist child-molesting drug-dealing rapists -- he dishonestly claims he doesn't understand why anyone would think he's trying to imply such a thing, when he's not accusing his critics of being either A) afraid of him; or B) uncomfortable with the Great and Wonderous Truth he has brought them.

    Frankly, I've never seen such consistent intellectual dishonesty coupled with such monumental ignorance in my life. I don't know what is worse -- that someone truly could be such a legend in his own mind, or that he could affect such staggering arrogance and sophistry deliberately, knowing it to be substantively bankrupt.

    Perhaps we could should delve into this further and draw some spurious and illogical conclusions about the entire population of SCARS stylists, based on the behavior of one of their number (though, to be fair to the SCARS people, they've disavowed any knowledge of Kungfoolss or his activities on the web, stating flatly that no one online represents them).

    Using the "logical" standards set here at Bullshido by whatever-his-name, we can conclude the following about every SCARS practitioner everywhere:

    1. SCARS stylists are always anonymous online and evade every direct question about their ages, the time they've spent in SCARS, their exact locations, their real names, and their skill levels.

    2. SCARS stylists will avoid any and all opportunities to meet in real life the people whose skills and abilities they deride, for fear that their criticism will be shown to be empty. When pressed they will declare that their skills are so lethal that they cannot simply go about killing everyone who challenges them.

    3. SCARS stylists are generally ignorant of almost every aspect of fighting, body positioning, physical mechanics, and any other aspect of the martial arts that does not come directly from the writing or videos of Jerry Petersen or Tim Larkin.

    4. SCARS stylists enjoy writing in verbose, over-constructed prose laced with malaprops and misused terms, because they wish to be seen as intelligent and are in fact far less educated than they believe themselves to be.

    5. SCARS stylists fancy themselves statisticians, psychoanalysts, "professionals," and lethal fighters, but are none of these things.

    6. SCARS stylists respond to any and all criticism of their childish behavior and spurious logic by accusing their critics of being "afraid" -- either of the SCARS stylists themselves or of the Great Big Scary Truth those stylists bring to the hapless masses.

    7. SCARS stylists are martial artists who like to pretend they are not martial artists, using a wondrous science we call "semantics."

    8. SCARS stylists are all laughably arrogant children who speak of themselves in the third person, believe themselves to be the "scourges" of various populations and communities, and live in fear of being exposed as the insecure, terrified creatures their behavior demonstrates them to be.

    There. By Kungfoolss' "logic" we have stated, beyond doubt, principles that can be applied globally and without error to all SCARS stylists everywhere. I'm glad we got that cleared up.
  4. The Wastrel is offline
    The Wastrel's Avatar

    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    1/03/2003 10:57am

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    http://capital.net/~phuston/WALKONGLASS.HTML

    This articles pretty decent, but one of the others was just an outline for a lecture. I think I buried qi here in the last couple of days.

    **The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  5. The Wastrel is offline
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    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    1/03/2003 11:08am

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "However, explanations of events in terms of controlling and harnessing chi are superfluous by Occam's razor."

    This quote is from the article on your second link. Though I agree with the author, I think this is a patronizing use of basic logic. I will rephrase this and you will see what I mean...

    "However, explanations of events in terms of controlling and harnessing physics are superfluous by chi."

    See, this is the kind of thinking I resist, and I don't care if the claimant identifies himself as a 'scientist' or a 'skeptic'. Some people can become equally mystical about science. If you follow my thread on qi, and the related threads, you will see that I never condescended to make these kinds of arguments. One would need to explain WHY Occam's Razor precludes the existence of qi, and also why this is significant. Also, to use Occam's Razor as a rule is a misrepresentation. It's a guideline. And to your other point, I don't bother with Kungfoolss. HE is the worst kind of proselytizer. The only one he's persuading is himself, and I think he's managed to alienate the other skeptics on this board just as efficiently as he has the mystics.



    **The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  6. jing shen gou is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/03/2003 5:28pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I might believe in some wierd ****, but nothing in my way of looking at the world is as frighteningly misguided as kungfools.
    I mean, if one honestly thinks that being a martial artist makes you a criminal, then I am going to negotiate peace in the middle east that will last forever.(sarcasm alert, sarcasm alert)
    Hell i'll even build a railroad from hawaii to tokyo japan if you honestly think being a martial artist makes you a criminal.
    The real problem with kungfools is that he most likly had his illusions of reality shattered by a legitamate martial artist and he is now trying to rebuild his world.
    However I could be entirly wrong. but for some reason i doubt that.
    Who knows? right?



    Edited by - jing shen gou on January 03 2003 16:40:25
  7. Kato is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/04/2003 11:01am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just a thought, as I'm chugging through a few lagers...anybody care to estimate the percentage of the population in a developed country that has been:
    exposed to martial arts?
    trained?
    'expert level' ( tabloidspeak for 2yrs training )?
  8. Greese is offline
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    Motorboatin SOB

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    Posted On:
    1/04/2003 2:55pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo and BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    2 Years of training?
    I would think everyone would have at least met someone like that.
    Taken a class? 5%-10%
    And that's when I figured out that tears couldn't make somebody who was dead alive again. There's another thing to learn about tears, they can't make somebody who doesn't love you any more love you again. It's the same with prayers. I wonder how much of their lives people waste crying and praying to God. If you ask me, the devil makes more sense than God does. I can at least see why people would want him around. It's good to have somebody to blame for the bad stuff they do. Maybe God's there because people get scared of all the bad stuff they do. They figure that God and the Devil are always playing this game of tug-of-war game with them. And they never know which side they're gonna wind up on. I guess that tug-of-war idea explains how sometimes, even when people try to do something good, it still turns out bad.
  9. Sicilian Dragon is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/04/2003 4:11pm

    supporting member
     Style: Ki Chuan Do/Close Combat

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have had a wide range of reactions to Kungfools' posts - including apathy, frustration, pity and amusement. I have to admit that occasionally the articles he posts are pretty damned funny; however I agree with Phil - KFS has a twisted and poorly argued agenda. KFS is a real asshole too BTW - for those who haven't seen his cruder posts.

    The amount of time that people have wasted arguing with him - or analyzing him - is almost tragic (and no the irony that I am taking time to write this is not lost on me). Not to mention the colossal waste of his own time. He posts on other web sites as well, where he gets similar responses.

    This hobby is unhealthy for him and a waste of everyone's time who responds to him.

    SD

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