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  1. Beatdown Richie is offline
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    game dog

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    Posted On:
    8/19/2004 3:24pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Question for Aikido buffs

    Here it is: name one direct student of O'Sensei who didn't found his own branch of aikido.

    Seriously, how many distinct aikido organizations exist? How many existed, but have faltered in the meantime?
    There are no wrong threats, only wrong answers. (Strategy game truism)
  2. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/19/2004 3:50pm

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     Style: Shi Ja Quan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    O sensei's son, does he count?
    And the ones that stayed with the hombo dojo, don't get much press.
  3. Beatdown Richie is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/19/2004 3:55pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    > O sensei's son, does he count?
    Hm.
    > And the ones that stayed with the hombo dojo, don't get much press.
    Okay, that makes sense.

    But you know what I mean, right? It seems the whole style is prone to fragmentation, more so than other styles (with the exception of *ing *un, maybe).
    There are no wrong threats, only wrong answers. (Strategy game truism)
  4. Peter H. is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/19/2004 4:32pm


     Style: Aikido-Kickboxing-Taichi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When he died, basically no one agreed on anything because O'Sensei changed what he taught and how he taught as time went on. Even those who didn't immediately create their own organizations and versions of Aikido, eventually split from whom ever they sided with and created their own schools/styles/organizations.
    "Quiet fool before I am kicking the butt!"
    -My three year old trash talking to me

    "Integrity can't be bought or sold---you either have it or you don't."
    -The Honky Tonk Man

    "If you can't be a shining example, at least be a dire warning."
    -My Father to me one day

    "No surprise. Until Aikido sheds its street-brawling, thuggish image, it'll never be mainstream."
    -Don Gwinn
  5. kod is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/19/2004 4:43pm


     Style: aikido / judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, off the top of my head, folks that lived and studied directly with him that didnt splinter:

    His kid/grandkid:
    Kisshomaru Ueshiba
    Moriteru Ueshiba

    Past and present top dogs in the US akikai:
    Mitsunari Kanai
    Yoshimitsu Yamada
    Akira Tohei
    Kazuo Chiba

    His only caucasian uchi-deshi:
    Terry Dobson

    All those names are very well known in the aikido community, and get plenty of press.

    The style is younger even than judo, and ueshiba was not concerned at all with systematizing it, unlike Kano. That's why theres a relativley large amount of fragmentation. The folks who "left" to do their own thing often did so with ueshiba's blessings.
  6. Peter H. is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/19/2004 5:01pm


     Style: Aikido-Kickboxing-Taichi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Aikira Tohei died in 1999 and he was splinter off the main line as well
    "Quiet fool before I am kicking the butt!"
    -My three year old trash talking to me

    "Integrity can't be bought or sold---you either have it or you don't."
    -The Honky Tonk Man

    "If you can't be a shining example, at least be a dire warning."
    -My Father to me one day

    "No surprise. Until Aikido sheds its street-brawling, thuggish image, it'll never be mainstream."
    -Don Gwinn
  7. kod is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/19/2004 5:48pm


     Style: aikido / judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Akira Tohei founded the midwestern branch of the US akikai. I studied with Akira Tohei as a child in an Aikikai dojo. I'd guess you are confusing him with Koichi Tohei, the founder of the Ki Society, which was an actual contentious "splinter group" as opposed to say the Yoshinkan or schools of ueshiba.
  8. twysk is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/19/2004 6:00pm


     Style: Traditional and Non-Traditional

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There was also Gozo Shioda, who founded Yoshinkan Aikido. He was one of Ueshiba's top students from the pre-WW2 era. He chose to stay with the more "practical" applications of aikido, rather than the spiritual side. He actually split from the main branch of aikido before Ueshiba died. He still paid tribute to Ueshiba, but had his own distinct organization and curriculum.
  9. DCS is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/19/2004 6:55pm

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     Style: 柔道

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Morihiro Saito.

    Note about Shioda: Founded the Yoshinkan before Aikikai was founded so it can't be considered a split IMHO.
  10. Peter H. is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/20/2004 8:21am


     Style: Aikido-Kickboxing-Taichi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by kod
    Akira Tohei founded the midwestern branch of the US akikai. I studied with Akira Tohei as a child in an Aikikai dojo. I'd guess you are confusing him with Koichi Tohei, the founder of the Ki Society, which was an actual contentious "splinter group" as opposed to say the Yoshinkan or schools of ueshiba.
    ***Warning I am about to Rant on Aikido Organizations, this is not directed at anyone in particular, but the Aikido Community in General. Also, I deviate heavily from the original question. Which to answer Richie, is a lot, pretty much what happened after Ed Parker's death happened after Ueshiba's. Anyway You Have Been Warned***

    I'm not confusing him with Koichi Tohei, who was one of my instructor's instructors. But Akira was a break off as much as anyone else was. He is the only one I can make comment out of that list, since the rest I either haven't heard of or know so little about, I don't feel qualified to make a comment on.

    Just because a school has "Hombu Recognition" does not mean they aren't an off-shoot. And even further is that Midwest divided amongst itself upon Akira's death.

    The entire Aikikai branch (and I include our own in that) is an offshoot.

    Read about Doshu 2 and 3. Even though they inherited the title and are Morihei's son and grandson respectivly, they have changed the teachings. And while they didn't "Found" their own styles, some of the splinters were caused because they made changes and the splinters claim they are doing "Real Aikido".

    One of the reasons I respect Shioda, Tomiki, and Granville more than I respect some of the others, including the subsequent Doshus is that there is no pretense of teaching "Ueshiba's Aikido" or "Aikido as O-Sensei would have taught it". They freely admit that hey they saw Aikido, liked it, changed, but it's still Aikido, so who cares.

    There is no one teaching Aikido today that can claim they aren't a splinter. No one is teaching Aikido as O-sensei would, because he changed Aikido as he taught it, and everyone who comes after should be changing Aikido as well, it's call evolution, it grows, gets better. If you aren't refining Aikido, as he refined Aikido, then you are disrespecting his memory, IMO.

    It's discussions like these that make me hate going to Aikido seminars or demonstrations, a bunch of people all standing around claiming 18 different methods of performing Shomen-Uchi Ikkyu, all claiming their way is right, everyone else is wrong, because the founder of their style trained with O-sensei from 19xx-19xx. Guess what, it's all right and it's all wrong. No one except O-sensei did his Aikido, he even says so if you read "Training with the Master", he tells you to make Aikido your own, and worry about the philosophy of Aikido, not doing Aikido exactly like he did.
    "Quiet fool before I am kicking the butt!"
    -My three year old trash talking to me

    "Integrity can't be bought or sold---you either have it or you don't."
    -The Honky Tonk Man

    "If you can't be a shining example, at least be a dire warning."
    -My Father to me one day

    "No surprise. Until Aikido sheds its street-brawling, thuggish image, it'll never be mainstream."
    -Don Gwinn
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