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  1. atek3 is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
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    south florida
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    95

    Posted On:
    8/14/2004 6:24am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Is Fist-Fire Bullshido?

    So over at http://www.tacticalshooting.com/
    this guy named Middlebrooks teaches a very unorthodox shooting system. The flashy crap on the front page and general arrogance of his prose gives it a "SCARS"-like bullshido look. But on the other hand, he's well regarded by several SBG instructors, and he and his students have won lots of 'real-world' oriented shooting competitions.

    Here's a quote by him.
    Q: Some experts will argue, "Competition ain't combat and it ain't real, unless it's real"…So, what do you say to that?

    A: "O.K., matches are not real, so why can’t these experts hit the targets? Matches are the best testing grounds we have to gauge improvement, test our theories and prove out new shooting techniques…

    Besides, Why would you want to wait until it "gets real" to find out what works and what doesn’t? You can screw up in a match, and still go home afterwards (as opposed to the hospital or morgue). I would much rather find out at the match what my weak points are, as opposed to finding out later on the street."

    Doesn't that sound like Matt Thortons 'street vs. sport' article?


    Where I get the bullshido part from is he's basically accusing the rest of the professional gun instruction world of being garbage. I mean his shooting stances are the opposite of just about every other instructor. I'm curious who is teaching the "deeper horse stance" of shooting stances. And he's really really expensive.

    atek3
  2. SamHarber is offline

    Taking a break

    Join Date
    Oct 2002
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    Bolton, Lancashire, UK
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    2,611

    Posted On:
    8/14/2004 8:06am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've seen Israeli instructors teach a deep horse stance when shooting.
    It was on a program about Americans going on holiday to Israel to learn survival techniques in the Gaza Strip. Talk about hard core RBSD.
    Taking responsibility for my actions since 1989
  3. punchingdummy is offline

    Registered User

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    Nov 2003
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    2,796

    Posted On:
    8/14/2004 9:53am

    Join us... or die
     Style: TSK

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If what he posts is true then his instructors can shoot well. I see nothing radical in what he is teaching and would, with cautious optimism, be interested in taking one of his classes to see what this sytem is all about. I'd probably do some mor research before plopping down the cash. Shooting is like martial arts - you learn from different systems and styles and take a little bit from each as you find what works best for you.

    The one thing that I found interesting is that his prose seem to targeting a civilian audience. In fact, the only testimonial I found complelling at all was the one Marine FAST Company Captain. But the curriculum looks interesting and they CAN shoot.
  4. Peter H. is offline

    Professional Wrestler

    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    San Angelo, TX
    Posts
    2,470

    Posted On:
    8/14/2004 9:56am


     Style: Aikido-Kickboxing-Taichi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Richard Marchinko once wrote, and I am paraphrasing here because I don't have the copy of the book handy, "Left eye, right eye, one hand, two hand, doesn't matter as long as you hit the target."

    Sums up my thoughts on shooting.
    "Quiet fool before I am kicking the butt!"
    -My three year old trash talking to me

    "Integrity can't be bought or sold---you either have it or you don't."
    -The Honky Tonk Man

    "If you can't be a shining example, at least be a dire warning."
    -My Father to me one day

    "No surprise. Until Aikido sheds its street-brawling, thuggish image, it'll never be mainstream."
    -Don Gwinn
  5. punchingdummy is offline

    Registered User

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    Nov 2003
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    2,796

    Posted On:
    8/14/2004 12:32pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: TSK

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by Peter H.
    Richard Marchinko once wrote, and I am paraphrasing here because I don't have the copy of the book handy, "Left eye, right eye, one hand, two hand, doesn't matter as long as you hit the target."

    Sums up my thoughts on shooting.
    That's true, but in the vast majority of cases that ability comes from good technique...and practice.
  6. atek3 is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    south florida
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    95

    Posted On:
    8/14/2004 2:48pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My "Pistol-Do" mainly comes from Chuck Taylor's techniques which themselves are a refinement of Jeff Cooper's Modern Technique of the Pistol. I can clear a plate rack pretty darn fast, but that guy... jesus... he cleared the rack faster weakhanded than I can TWO handed.
    Oh SamHarber, israeli pistol technique is total bullshido. For example, they had a problem of the soldiers negligently discharging their pistols, so rather than teach good pistol technique, they started carrying their pistols WITHOUT A ROUND IN THE CHAMBER. Then on the Draw they would use the "israeli swipe" to charge the pistol and then fire. Talk about a waste of time.

    Lemme know if anyone goes to try the 'fist-fire' stuff.

    atek3
  7. atek3 is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    south florida
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    95

    Posted On:
    8/14/2004 2:55pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I really liked Clint Smith's take on some of the bizarre new concepts coming out. To our class, he said something along the lines of, "I don't care what you call it. All that matters is that you are able to put your rounds on target, where you need them, as much as you need them as many times as you need them until the threat is gone. No ninja stuff is required. It is a lot simpler if you bypass all the ninja cross bar fist fire RECON Special Forces Spetnatz point shooting while using the Force and just shoot the bad guys and shoot them well."
    Clint Smith is the owner of Thunder Ranch.

    Oh and it looks like Fist-Fire got exposed as a bullshido
    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...ht=middlebrook

    atek3
  8. DRM is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    15

    Posted On:
    1/19/2008 9:23am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: FIST-FIRE

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Is FIST-FIRE is Bullshido?

    Judge for yourself, just click on these links for some FREE video downloads:


    Segment #1: "Surgical Point Shooting"

    http://www.brightcove.tv/title.jsp?t...nnel=429149807

    Segment #2: "High Speed Point Shooting"

    http://www.brightcove.tv/title.jsp?t...nnel=429149807

    Segment #3: More High Speed Point Shooting"

    http://www.brightcove.tv/title.jsp?t...nnel=429149807

    Segment #4: "Integrating Point Shooting with Sighted Fire"

    http://www.brightcove.tv/title.jsp?t...nnel=429149807

    Cheers,

    D.R. Middlebrooks
    www.TacticalShooting.com
    Last edited by DRM; 1/19/2008 9:27am at .
  9. DRM is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    15

    Posted On:
    1/19/2008 9:33am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: FIST-FIRE

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    And if FIST-FIRE is Bullshido, then are all these guys wrong?


    http://www.tacticalshooting.com/testimonials.html


    And if FIST-FIRE is Bullshido, do we have to give all these shooting titles back?

    1st Place: 1998 Winchester World Challenge - Stock Gun World Champion

    1st Place: 1998 Virginia State IDPA - ESP State Champion

    1st Place: 1998 West Virginia IDPA -- ESP State Champion

    1st Place: 1998 West Virginia IDPA - Ladies State Champion

    1st Place: 1998 North Carolina IDPA - ESP State Champion

    1st Place: 1998 Eastern Regional IDPA - ESP Champion

    1st Place: 1998 Eastern Regional IDPA Ladies Champion

    1st Place: 1998 Florida State IDPA - ESP Champion

    1st Place: 1998 Florida State IDPA - Ladies Champion

    1st Place: 1999 World Shoot Off - Stock Gun Champion

    1st Place: 1999 Tennessee State IDPA - SSP Champion

    1st Place: 2000 Eastern Regional IDPA - CDP Champion

    1st Place: 2000 Blackwater Challenge - CDP Champion

    1st Place: 2000 Blackwater Challenge - Ladies Champion

    1st Place: 2000 World Shoot Off - IDPA Champion

    1st Place: 2000 IDPA Nationals - ESP National Champion

    1st Place: 2000 Virginia State IDPA - ESP Champion

    1st Place: 2000 Virginia State IDPA - Ladies Champion

    1st Place: 2000 Tennessee State IDPA - ESP Champion

    1st Place: 2001 World Shoot Off - Stock Gun Champion

    1st Place: 2001 World Shoot Off - IDPA Champion

    1st Place: 2001 World Shoot Off - Jr. Stock Gun World Champion

    1st Place: 2001 World Shoot Off - Ladies Stock Gun World Champion

    1st Place: 2001 Blackwater Challenge - Match Champion

    1st Place: 2001 Blackwater Challenge - SSP Champion

    1st Place: 2001 Blackwater Challenge - Ladies Champion

    1st Place: 2001 Blackwater Challenge - SSP Champion

    1st Place: 2001 Virginia State IDPA - SSP Champion

    1st Place: 2001 Virginia State IDPA Ladies Champion

    1st Place: 2002 Mid-West Regional IDPA - SSP Regional Champion

    1st Place: 2002 Carolina Cup IDPA - SSP State Champion

    1st Place: 2002 Carolina Cup IDPA - Ladies State Champion

    1st Place: 2002 Commonwealth Cup IDPA - Ladies State Champion

    1st Place: 2002 Winchester World Challenge - IDPA World Champion

    1st Place: 2002 World Shoot Off - IDPA World Champion

    1st Place: 2002 World Shoot Off - Stock Gun World Champion

    1st Place: 2002 All Navy Match - All Navy National Champion

    1st Place: 2002 Florida State IDPA - ESP State Champion

    1st Place: 2002 Tennessee State IDPA - SSP State Champion

    1st Place: 2002 Southern Regional IDPA - SSP State Champion

    1st Place: 2002 Mississippi State IDPA - SSP State Champion

    1st Place: 2003 Virginia Indoor IDPA - ESP Regional Champion

    1st Place: 2003 Virginia Indoor IDPA - SSP Regional Champion

    1st Place: 2003 Southern Regional IDPA - SSP Regional Champion

    1st Place: 2003 Tennessee State IDPA - SSP State Champion

    1st Place: 2003 PSA Shootout - Stock Gun Speed Steel Champion

    1st Place: 2003 Alabama IDPA - ESP State Champion

    1st Place: 2003 Kentucky-Tennessee IDPA - SSP Regional Champion

    1st Place: 2003 Commonwealth Cups IDPA - SSP Champion

    1st Place: 2003 Winchester Challenge - IDPA World Champion

    1st Place: 2003 World Shoot Off - Jr. Stock Gun World Champion

    1st Place: 2003 World Shoot Off - IDPA World Champion

    1st Place: 2003 Steel Challenge - IDPA World Speed Shooting Champion

    1st Place: 2004 Virginia Indoor IDPA - ESP Regional Champion

    1st Place: 2004 Indiana State IDPA - SSP State Champion

    1st Place: 2004 Southern Regional IDPA - ESP Regional Champion

    1st Place: 2004 Mid-West Regional IDPA - SSP Regional Champion

    1st Place: 2004 Winchester World Challenge - IDPA World Champion

    1st Place: 2004 World Shoot Off - Jr. Stock Gun World Champion

    1st Place: 2004 World Shoot Off - IDPA World Shoot Off Champion

    1st Place: 2004 Steel Challenge - IDPA World Speed Shooting Champion

    1st Place: 2004 N.C. RECON 3-Gun Championships - Match Champion

    1st Place: 2004 N.C. Tactical Invitational 3-Gun Championship - Match Champion

    1st Place: 2004 IDPA Nationals - ESP National Champion

    1st Place: 2005 Virginia Indoor IDPA - ESP Regional Champion

    1st Place: 2005 Arkansas State IDPA - SSP State Champion

    1st Place: 2005 PSA Shootout - Stock Gun Speed Steel Champion

    1st Place: 2005 Maryland State IDPA - ESP State Champion

    1st Place: 2005 USPSA Area 6 Championships - Limited-10 Champion

    1st Place: 2005 MGM IRONMAN 3-Gun Championships - Tactical Champion

    1st Place: 2005 N.C. RECON 3-Gun Championships - Match Champion

    1st Place: 2005 Carolina Tactical Invitational 3-Gun - Match Champion

    1st Place: 2005 Steel Challenge - IDPA ESP World Speed Shooting Champion

    1st Place: 2005 IDPA Nationals - ESP National Champion

    1st Place: 2006 Arkansas USPSA 3-Gun Championships - Limited State Champion

    1st Place: 2007 VA Indoor Regional IDPA Championships - ESP Champion

    1st Place:
    2007 Tri State Regional IDPA Championships - SSP Champion

    1st Place: 2007 Blackwater Regional Challenge - Match Champion

    1st Place: 2007 TSA "Street Gun Nationals" - Top Military National Champion

    1st Place: 2007 TSA "Street Gun Nationals" - Top Lady National Champion

    1st Place: 2007 TSA "Street Gun Nationals" - Top LEO National Champion

    1st Place: 2007 TSA "Street Gun Nationals" - Mid-size Pistol National Champion
    Last edited by DRM; 2/07/2008 6:16pm at .
  10. mattkiley is offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    108

    Posted On:
    1/19/2008 9:38am


     Style: Enshin Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Who won all these matches
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